Thread

1. PARALLEL CTAS

   Shane Borden <sborden76@gmail.com> — 2022-12-12T16:16:49Z

   Based on testing thus far, it appears that the only way to get a bulk load operation (similar to oracle) would be to use the COPY command or to use multiple connections and break up the inserts across connections.  I did see a possibility of using the postgres_fdw extension and use the batch functionality, but I haven’t tested that yet.
   
   Does anyone know the status of this feature / patch that was discussed in this link?
   
   https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CAJcOf-cXnB5cnMKqWEp2E2z7Mvcd04iLVmV%3DqpFJrR3AcrTS3g%40mail.gmail.com
   
   Is there a way in PostgreSQL to parallelize a CTAS statement similar to how you can do it in Oracle?
   
   ---
   
   Thanks,
   
   
   Shane Borden
   sborden76@gmail.com
   
   

2. Re: PARALLEL CTAS

   Erik Brandsberg <erik@heimdalldata.com> — 2022-12-12T16:55:39Z

   Copy operations are by far the most efficient way to do bulk loads.  The
   fdw extension isn't very efficient based on prior experience.
   
   On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 11:17 AM Shane Borden <sborden76@gmail.com> wrote:
   
   > Based on testing thus far, it appears that the only way to get a bulk load
   > operation (similar to oracle) would be to use the COPY command or to use
   > multiple connections and break up the inserts across connections.  I did
   > see a possibility of using the postgres_fdw extension and use the batch
   > functionality, but I haven’t tested that yet.
   >
   > Does anyone know the status of this feature / patch that was discussed in
   > this link?
   >
   >
   > https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CAJcOf-cXnB5cnMKqWEp2E2z7Mvcd04iLVmV%3DqpFJrR3AcrTS3g%40mail.gmail.com
   >
   > Is there a way in PostgreSQL to parallelize a CTAS statement similar to
   > how you can do it in Oracle?
   >
   > ---
   >
   > Thanks,
   >
   >
   > Shane Borden
   > sborden76@gmail.com
   >
   >
   

3. Re: PARALLEL CTAS

   Shane Borden <sborden76@gmail.com> — 2022-12-12T17:13:36Z

   The issue is there are certain performance benefits to be had by doing parallel CTAS operations and when converting from Oracle to PostgreSQL switching to a “COPY” operation isn’t feasible.
   ---
   
   Thanks,
   
   
   Shane Borden
   sborden76@gmail.com
   
   > On Dec 12, 2022, at 11:55 AM, Erik Brandsberg <erik@heimdalldata.com> wrote:
   > 
   > Copy operations are by far the most efficient way to do bulk loads.  The fdw extension isn't very efficient based on prior experience.
   > 
   > On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 11:17 AM Shane Borden <sborden76@gmail.com <mailto:sborden76@gmail.com>> wrote:
   >> Based on testing thus far, it appears that the only way to get a bulk load operation (similar to oracle) would be to use the COPY command or to use multiple connections and break up the inserts across connections.  I did see a possibility of using the postgres_fdw extension and use the batch functionality, but I haven’t tested that yet.
   >> 
   >> Does anyone know the status of this feature / patch that was discussed in this link?
   >> 
   >> https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CAJcOf-cXnB5cnMKqWEp2E2z7Mvcd04iLVmV%3DqpFJrR3AcrTS3g%40mail.gmail.com
   >> 
   >> Is there a way in PostgreSQL to parallelize a CTAS statement similar to how you can do it in Oracle?
   >> 
   >> ---
   >> 
   >> Thanks,
   >> 
   >> 
   >> Shane Borden
   >> sborden76@gmail.com <mailto:sborden76@gmail.com>
   
   

4. Re: PARALLEL CTAS

   Rob Sargent <robjsargent@gmail.com> — 2022-12-12T17:25:08Z

   On 12/12/22 10:13, Shane Borden wrote:
   > The issue is there are certain performance benefits to be had by doing 
   > parallel CTAS operations and when converting from Oracle to PostgreSQL 
   > switching to a “COPY” operation isn’t feasible.
   > ---
   >
   > Thanks,
   >
   Today I suspect you're left with something like the following:
   - CTAS from source where 1=2 (i.e. table definition via select semantics)
   - copy from stdin (filled with intended CTAS select)
   
   
   
   
   

5. Re: PARALLEL CTAS

   Shane Borden <sborden76@gmail.com> — 2022-12-12T17:36:11Z

   I saw this as an option.  Let’s say you have a million row table.  If you copy from STDIN, do you have to spool the source table to a local file first?  Looking to replace a CTAS thats doing this all within SQL statements now.
   ---
   
   Thanks,
   
   
   Shane Borden
   sborden76@gmail.com
   
   > On Dec 12, 2022, at 12:25 PM, Rob Sargent <robjsargent@gmail.com> wrote:
   > 
   > On 12/12/22 10:13, Shane Borden wrote:
   >> The issue is there are certain performance benefits to be had by doing parallel CTAS operations and when converting from Oracle to PostgreSQL switching to a “COPY” operation isn’t feasible.
   >> ---
   >> 
   >> Thanks,
   >> 
   > Today I suspect you're left with something like the following:
   > - CTAS from source where 1=2 (i.e. table definition via select semantics)
   > - copy from stdin (filled with intended CTAS select)
   > 
   > 
   > 
   
   

6. Re: PARALLEL CTAS

   Steve Midgley <science@misuse.org> — 2022-12-12T18:19:00Z

   On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 9:36 AM Shane Borden <sborden76@gmail.com> wrote:
   
   > I saw this as an option.  Let’s say you have a million row table.  If you
   > copy from STDIN, do you have to spool the source table to a local file
   > first?  Looking to replace a CTAS thats doing this all within SQL
   > statements now.
   > ---
   >
   > Thanks,
   >
   >
   > Shane Borden
   > sborden76@gmail.com
   >
   > On Dec 12, 2022, at 12:25 PM, Rob Sargent <robjsargent@gmail.com> wrote:
   >
   > On 12/12/22 10:13, Shane Borden wrote:
   >
   > The issue is there are certain performance benefits to be had by doing
   > parallel CTAS operations and when converting from Oracle to PostgreSQL
   > switching to a “COPY” operation isn’t feasible.
   > ---
   >
   > Thanks,
   >
   > Today I suspect you're left with something like the following:
   > - CTAS from source where 1=2 (i.e. table definition via select semantics)
   > - copy from stdin (filled with intended CTAS select)
   >
   > I'm not at all familiar with Oracle / CTAS (fair warning). But I did spend
   some time, years ago, building a fast import using COPY/STDIN in Postgres
   awhile back. I copied that code into a Ruby language gist
   <https://gist.github.com/science/393907d4123c87ed767bc81e9dd5a7da>
   demonstrating the core concept recently.
   
   The key idea, IMO, is to use an intermediate language like Ruby to manage
   the "spooling" from the source file to STDIN. That system could presumably
   fork processes to have more than one COPY from the file going at a time
   (and coordinate each thread to access different rows of the source file).
   
   However, my experience was that if you want the absolutely fastest import,
   you should copy the source file to a fast disk/array on the Postgres server
   itself, and then run the COPY command pointing to that file locally, not
   piping from STDIN over a network connection. Postgres, at least in my
   testing, maxes I/O on a single COPY command pretty heartily - so much so
   that you might find performance otherwise becomes a problem, esp if your
   DBs are on that disk/array. IIRC, I was seeing millions of rows loaded per
   second on a high performing Postgres server, using this method. Also, IIRC,
   I removed the indexes from the table, again to max throughput, and then
   added them back after the COPY completed (not sure if modern Postgres COPY
   needs that - this was years ago).
   
   I think total time to completion was also faster, as the index rebuilds
   were faster after the fact, than done during the loading (again I'm foggy
   so maybe inaccurate - this was years ago), but I was loading into a blank
   table -- rebuilding already constructed indexes might have an overwhelming
   cost.
   
   If you have to do a network based COPY from STDIN, then my gist above will
   hopefully show the way - and I wouldn't be surprised if running multiple of
   these simultaneously gets better performance than a single COPY. At that
   point, you'll just be fine tuning to max saturation on the network
   bandwidth - not the max capability of the postgres server, which the local
   disk COPY does.
   
   Hopefully this input is relevant - please ignore if I'm missing your goal
   entirely!
   
   Best,
   Steve
   

7. Re: PARALLEL CTAS

   Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> — 2022-12-12T18:52:13Z

   >> Today I suspect you're left with something like the following:
   >> - CTAS from source where 1=2 (i.e. table definition via select semantics)
   >> - copy from stdin (filled with intended CTAS select)
   
   As far as I can tell, all supported versions of Postgres are perfectly
   content to parallelize the source-row computation in a CREATE TABLE AS
   SELECT, if they would parallelize the underlying SELECT.  Note that
   this is not the same as INSERT INTO ... SELECT, which is a harder
   problem because the target table might already have indexes, constraints,
   etc.
   
   If what you are concerned about is parallelization of the physical
   insertions of the tuples, I'm pretty sure we don't have anything that
   can do that today, including COPY.  COPY does have some batch-insertion
   optimizations, but that's not parallelism.
   
   Can you parallelize your problem at a higher level, ie do several
   table loads at once?
   
   			regards, tom lane