Thread

PostgreSQL-related legal question

PT <wmoran@potentialtech.com> — 2015-03-11T12:28:11Z

I've been asked to sign a legal document related to a PostgreSQL-
related job opening. I have concerns about the document and that
signing it could have a negative impact on the PostgreSQL project
(in addition to personal concerns).

I'm guessing I'm not the first person to go through this. I'm
hoping someone on this list can refer me to a lawyer who is
familiar with the challenges of NDAs and open source projects.

I'm not asking for pro-bono, I'm willing to pay for services,
but I just figured that I might get better results getting a
referral than by contacting $random_legal_service.

-- 
Bill Moran

Re: PostgreSQL-related legal question

Dorian Hoxha <dorian.hoxha@gmail.com> — 2015-03-11T12:50:02Z

I don't see how it could have negative impact on the postgresql project?
It's not like your job will be to find vulnerabilities and not disclose
them ?

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Bill Moran <wmoran@potentialtech.com>
wrote:

>
> I've been asked to sign a legal document related to a PostgreSQL-
> related job opening. I have concerns about the document and that
> signing it could have a negative impact on the PostgreSQL project
> (in addition to personal concerns).
>
> I'm guessing I'm not the first person to go through this. I'm
> hoping someone on this list can refer me to a lawyer who is
> familiar with the challenges of NDAs and open source projects.
>
> I'm not asking for pro-bono, I'm willing to pay for services,
> but I just figured that I might get better results getting a
> referral than by contacting $random_legal_service.
>
> --
> Bill Moran
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>

Re: PostgreSQL-related legal question

PT <wmoran@potentialtech.com> — 2015-03-11T12:55:51Z

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:50:02 +0100
Dorian Hoxha <dorian.hoxha@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't see how it could have negative impact on the postgresql project?
> It's not like your job will be to find vulnerabilities and not disclose
> them ?

I don't think I should discuss the particulars of the situation on
the list. That's why I'm just looking for a lawyer who understands
the situation and can advise me.

> 
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Bill Moran <wmoran@potentialtech.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've been asked to sign a legal document related to a PostgreSQL-
> > related job opening. I have concerns about the document and that
> > signing it could have a negative impact on the PostgreSQL project
> > (in addition to personal concerns).
> >
> > I'm guessing I'm not the first person to go through this. I'm
> > hoping someone on this list can refer me to a lawyer who is
> > familiar with the challenges of NDAs and open source projects.
> >
> > I'm not asking for pro-bono, I'm willing to pay for services,
> > but I just figured that I might get better results getting a
> > referral than by contacting $random_legal_service.
> >
> > --
> > Bill Moran
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> > To make changes to your subscription:
> > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
> >


-- 
Bill Moran

Re: PostgreSQL-related legal question

Vincent Veyron <vv.lists@wanadoo.fr> — 2015-03-11T17:40:29Z

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 08:28:11 -0400
Bill Moran <wmoran@potentialtech.com> wrote:

> 
> I've been asked to sign a legal document related to a PostgreSQL-
> related job opening. I have concerns about the document and that
> signing it could have a negative impact on the PostgreSQL project
> (in addition to personal concerns).

Open source licenses are designed to protect the project, usually, so it should be hard for you to be able to hurt it. I would rather be worried of signing for something illegal on your end, a good thing to check upon anyway.

> 
> I'm guessing I'm not the first person to go through this. I'm
> hoping someone on this list can refer me to a lawyer who is
> familiar with the challenges of NDAs and open source projects.
> 
> I'm not asking for pro-bono, I'm willing to pay for services,
> but I just figured that I might get better results getting a
> referral than by contacting $random_legal_service.
> 

I would try posting your question on one of the mailing lists at the OSI first (probably License-discuss?)

http://opensource.org/lists

-- 
					Salutations, Vincent Veyron 

https://libremen.com/ 
Legal case, contract and insurance claim management software

Re: PostgreSQL-related legal question

Gavin Flower <gavinflower@archidevsys.co.nz> — 2015-03-11T17:43:40Z

On 12/03/15 01:55, Bill Moran wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:50:02 +0100
> Dorian Hoxha <dorian.hoxha@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't see how it could have negative impact on the postgresql project?
>> It's not like your job will be to find vulnerabilities and not disclose
>> them ?
> I don't think I should discuss the particulars of the situation on
> the list. That's why I'm just looking for a lawyer who understands
> the situation and can advise me.
>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Bill Moran <wmoran@potentialtech.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been asked to sign a legal document related to a PostgreSQL-
>>> related job opening. I have concerns about the document and that
>>> signing it could have a negative impact on the PostgreSQL project
>>> (in addition to personal concerns).
>>>
>>> I'm guessing I'm not the first person to go through this. I'm
>>> hoping someone on this list can refer me to a lawyer who is
>>> familiar with the challenges of NDAs and open source projects.
>>>
>>> I'm not asking for pro-bono, I'm willing to pay for services,
>>> but I just figured that I might get better results getting a
>>> referral than by contacting $random_legal_service.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bill Moran
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
>>> To make changes to your subscription:
>>> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>>>
>
Bill cannot comment, but it might be along the lines of assigning all 
intellectual property rights, or something of that ilk. In that case, it 
might give the company ownership of stuff he may have contributed (or 
intends to contribute) to PostgreSQL in some way – which could lead to 
legal complications affecting PostgreSQL adversely, which would be 
expensive and an unnecessary distraction.

Re: PostgreSQL-related legal question

Jan de Visser <jan@de-visser.net> — 2015-03-11T20:46:32Z

On March 12, 2015 06:43:40 AM Gavin Flower wrote:
> Bill cannot comment, but it might be along the lines of assigning all 
> intellectual property rights, or something of that ilk. In that case, it 
> might give the company ownership of stuff he may have contributed (or 
> intends to contribute) to PostgreSQL in some way – which could lead to 
> legal complications affecting PostgreSQL adversely, which would be 
> expensive and an unnecessary distraction.

I used to work for a company that did exactly that - you had to sign a 
contract that claimed copyright of all your work, even work done outside of 
work hours, to the company. They did however tell you beforehand that if you 
were an established contributor to an open-source project they could make 
exceptions for that, but you had to go through legal.

But the upshot was that if you wrote an iPhone app in 15 minutes, the company 
would own that, technically.

Re: PostgreSQL-related legal question

Michael Nolan <htfoot@gmail.com> — 2015-03-11T21:27:25Z

One of my sons was hired by Google last year after spending the past
several years working on various open-source projects, it took 2 days of
back-and-forth with Google's legal department before he was satisfied with
the restrictions in their offer.
--
Mike Nolan

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Jan de Visser <jan@de-visser.net> wrote:

> On March 12, 2015 06:43:40 AM Gavin Flower wrote:
> > Bill cannot comment, but it might be along the lines of assigning all
> > intellectual property rights, or something of that ilk. In that case, it
> > might give the company ownership of stuff he may have contributed (or
> > intends to contribute) to PostgreSQL in some way – which could lead to
> > legal complications affecting PostgreSQL adversely, which would be
> > expensive and an unnecessary distraction.
>
> I used to work for a company that did exactly that - you had to sign a
> contract that claimed copyright of all your work, even work done outside of
> work hours, to the company. They did however tell you beforehand that if
> you
> were an established contributor to an open-source project they could make
> exceptions for that, but you had to go through legal.
>
> But the upshot was that if you wrote an iPhone app in 15 minutes, the
> company
> would own that, technically.
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>

Re: PostgreSQL-related legal question

Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> — 2015-03-11T23:53:46Z

Michael Nolan <htfoot@gmail.com> writes:
> One of my sons was hired by Google last year after spending the past
> several years working on various open-source projects, it took 2 days of
> back-and-forth with Google's legal department before he was satisfied with
> the restrictions in their offer.

FWIW, I had a pretty similar discussion with Salesforce when I joined
them.

If you're looking at an employment agreement with verbiage like this,
get them to modify it.  They're probably hiring you in part *because*
you are a contributor to PG, so they should be willing to bend their
standard language for you.  If not, maybe you don't want that job.

			regards, tom lane