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API reference →
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Handle EPERM in pg_numa_init
- 599336c64fc9 19 (unreleased) landed
- 482e98ac4302 18.2 landed
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Add CHECK_FOR_INTERRUPTS into pg_numa_query_pages
- 54ac4944c36f 18.0 landed
- bf1119d74a79 19 (unreleased) landed
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Silence valgrind about pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required
- 14e52227e578 18.0 landed
- 81f287dc923f 19 (unreleased) landed
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Limit the size of numa_move_pages requests
- 45879f48f140 18.0 landed
- 7fe2f67c7c9f 19 (unreleased) landed
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Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
- 8cc139bec34a 18.0 cited
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pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas.vondra@postgresql.org> — 2025-04-07T21:18:10Z
Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view Introduce new pg_shmem_alloctions_numa view with information about how shared memory is distributed across NUMA nodes. For each shared memory segment, the view returns one row for each NUMA node backing it, with the total amount of memory allocated from that node. The view may be relatively expensive, especially when executed for the first time in a backend, as it has to touch all memory pages to get reliable information about the NUMA node. This may also force allocation of the shared memory. Unlike pg_shmem_allocations, the view does not show anonymous shared memory allocations. It also does not show memory allocated using the dynamic shared memory infrastructure. Author: Jakub Wartak <jakub.wartak@enterprisedb.com> Reviewed-by: Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de> Reviewed-by: Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> Reviewed-by: Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> Discussion: https://postgr.es/m/CAKZiRmxh6KWo0aqRqvmcoaX2jUxZYb4kGp3N%3Dq1w%2BDiH-696Xw%40mail.gmail.com Branch ------ master Details ------- https://git.postgresql.org/pg/commitdiff/8cc139bec34a2971b0682a04eb52ce7b3f5bb425 Modified Files -------------- doc/src/sgml/system-views.sgml | 95 ++++++++++++++++++ src/backend/catalog/system_views.sql | 8 ++ src/backend/storage/ipc/shmem.c | 159 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ src/include/catalog/catversion.h | 2 +- src/include/catalog/pg_proc.dat | 8 ++ src/test/regress/expected/numa.out | 13 +++ src/test/regress/expected/numa_1.out | 5 + src/test/regress/expected/privileges.out | 16 +++- src/test/regress/expected/rules.out | 4 + src/test/regress/parallel_schedule | 2 +- src/test/regress/sql/numa.sql | 10 ++ src/test/regress/sql/privileges.sql | 6 +- 12 files changed, 322 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-)
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-12T21:16:19Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view This is acting up on Debian's 32-bit architectures, namely i386, armel and armhf: --- /build/reproducible-path/postgresql-18-18~beta1+20250612/src/test/regress/expected/numa.out 2025-06-12 12:21:21.000000000 +0000 +++ /build/reproducible-path/postgresql-18-18~beta1+20250612/build/src/test/regress/results/numa.out 2025-06-12 20:20:33.124292694 +0000 @@ -6,8 +6,4 @@ -- switch to superuser \c - SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa; - ok ----- - t -(1 row) - +ERROR: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -14 The diff is the same on all architectures. -14 seems to be -EFAULT, and move_pages(2) says: Page states in the status array The following values can be returned in each element of the status array. -EFAULT This is a zero page or the memory area is not mapped by the process. https://buildd.debian.org/status/logs.php?pkg=postgresql-18&ver=18%7Ebeta1%2B20250612-1 https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=postgresql-18&arch=armel&ver=18%7Ebeta1%2B20250612-1&stamp=1749759646&raw=0 Christoph -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-23T14:42:26Z
Re: To Tomas Vondra > This is acting up on Debian's 32-bit architectures, namely i386, armel > and armhf: ... and x32 (x86_64 instruction set with 32-bit pointers). > SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa; > +ERROR: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -14 > > -14 seems to be -EFAULT, and move_pages(2) says: > -EFAULT > This is a zero page or the memory area is not mapped by the process. I did some debugging on i386 and made it print the page numbers: SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa; +WARNING: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -14 for page 35 +WARNING: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -14 for page 36 ... +WARNING: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -14 for page 32768 +WARNING: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -14 for page 32769 So it works for the first few pages and then the rest is EFAULT. I think the pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required() hack might not be enough to force the pages to be allocated. Changing that to a memcpy() didn't help. Is there some optimization that zero pages aren't allocated until being written to? Why do we try to force the pages to be allocated at all? This is just a monitoring function, it should not change the actual system state. Why not just skip any page where the status is <0 ? The attached patch removes that logic. Regression tests pass, but we probably have to think about whether to report these negative numbers as-is or perhaps convert them to NULL. Christoph
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-23T14:48:27Z
Re: To Tomas Vondra > Why do we try to force the pages to be allocated at all? This is just > a monitoring function, it should not change the actual system state. One-time touching might also not be enough, what if the pages later get swapped out and the monitoring functions are called again? They will have to deal with these "not in memory" error conditions anyway. Christoph
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de> — 2025-06-23T15:14:54Z
Hi, On 2025-06-23 16:48:27 +0200, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: To Tomas Vondra > > Why do we try to force the pages to be allocated at all? This is just > > a monitoring function, it should not change the actual system state. The problem is that the kernel function just gives bogus results for pages that *are* present in memory but that have only touched in another process that has mapped the same range of memory. > One-time touching might also not be enough, what if the pages later > get swapped out and the monitoring functions are called again? I don't think that's a problem, the process still has a relevant page table entry in that case. Greetings, Andres Freund
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-23T15:20:12Z
Re: Andres Freund > > > Why do we try to force the pages to be allocated at all? This is just > > > a monitoring function, it should not change the actual system state. > > The problem is that the kernel function just gives bogus results for pages > that *are* present in memory but that have only touched in another process > that has mapped the same range of memory. Ok, so we leave the touching in, but still defend against negative status values? Christoph
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-23T15:59:24Z
Re: To Andres Freund > Ok, so we leave the touching in, but still defend against negative > status values? v2 attached. Christoph
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de> — 2025-06-23T16:26:22Z
Hi, On 2025-06-23 17:59:24 +0200, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: To Andres Freund > > Ok, so we leave the touching in, but still defend against negative > > status values? > > v2 attached. How confident are we that this isn't actually because we passed a bogus address to the kernel or such? With this patch, are *any* pages recognized as valid on the machines that triggered the error? I wonder if we ought to report the failures as a separate "numa node" (e.g. NULL as node id) instead ... Greetings, Andres Freund
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-23T19:57:56Z
Re: Andres Freund > How confident are we that this isn't actually because we passed a bogus > address to the kernel or such? With this patch, are *any* pages recognized as > valid on the machines that triggered the error? See upthread - the first 35 pages were ok, then a lot of -14. > I wonder if we ought to report the failures as a separate "numa node" > (e.g. NULL as node id) instead ... Did that now, using N+1 (== 1 here) for errors in this Debian i386 environment (chroot on an amd64 host): select * from pg_shmem_allocations_numa \crosstabview name │ 0 │ 1 ────────────────────────────────────────────────┼──────────┼────────── multixact_offset │ 69632 │ 65536 subtransaction │ 139264 │ 131072 notify │ 139264 │ 0 Shared Memory Stats │ 188416 │ 131072 serializable │ 188416 │ 86016 PROCLOCK hash │ 4096 │ 0 FinishedSerializableTransactions │ 4096 │ 0 XLOG Ctl │ 2117632 │ 2097152 Shared MultiXact State │ 4096 │ 0 Proc Header │ 4096 │ 0 Archiver Data │ 4096 │ 0 .... more 0s in the last column ... AioHandleData │ 1429504 │ 0 Buffer Blocks │ 67117056 │ 67108864 Buffer IO Condition Variables │ 266240 │ 0 Proc Array │ 4096 │ 0 .... more 0s (73 rows) There is something fishy with pg_buffercache. If I restart PG, I'm getting "Bad address" (errno 14), this time as return value of move_pages(). postgres =# select * from pg_buffercache_numa; DEBUG: 00000: NUMA: NBuffers=16384 os_page_count=32768 os_page_size=4096 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:383 2025-06-23 19:41:41.315 UTC [1331894] ERROR: failed NUMA pages inquiry: Bad address 2025-06-23 19:41:41.315 UTC [1331894] STATEMENT: select * from pg_buffercache_numa; ERROR: XX000: failed NUMA pages inquiry: Bad address LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:394 Repeated calls are fine. Maybe NUMA is just not supported on 32-bit archs, but I'd rather be sure about that before play that card. Christoph -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-23T20:10:46Z
On 6/23/25 21:57, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Andres Freund >> How confident are we that this isn't actually because we passed a bogus >> address to the kernel or such? With this patch, are *any* pages recognized as >> valid on the machines that triggered the error? > > See upthread - the first 35 pages were ok, then a lot of -14. > >> I wonder if we ought to report the failures as a separate "numa node" >> (e.g. NULL as node id) instead ... > > Did that now, using N+1 (== 1 here) for errors in this Debian i386 > environment (chroot on an amd64 host): > > select * from pg_shmem_allocations_numa \crosstabview > > name │ 0 │ 1 > ────────────────────────────────────────────────┼──────────┼────────── > multixact_offset │ 69632 │ 65536 > subtransaction │ 139264 │ 131072 > notify │ 139264 │ 0 > Shared Memory Stats │ 188416 │ 131072 > serializable │ 188416 │ 86016 > PROCLOCK hash │ 4096 │ 0 > FinishedSerializableTransactions │ 4096 │ 0 > XLOG Ctl │ 2117632 │ 2097152 > Shared MultiXact State │ 4096 │ 0 > Proc Header │ 4096 │ 0 > Archiver Data │ 4096 │ 0 > .... more 0s in the last column ... > AioHandleData │ 1429504 │ 0 > Buffer Blocks │ 67117056 │ 67108864 > Buffer IO Condition Variables │ 266240 │ 0 > Proc Array │ 4096 │ 0 > .... more 0s > (73 rows) > > > There is something fishy with pg_buffercache. If I restart PG, I'm > getting "Bad address" (errno 14), this time as return value of > move_pages(). > > postgres =# select * from pg_buffercache_numa; > DEBUG: 00000: NUMA: NBuffers=16384 os_page_count=32768 os_page_size=4096 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:383 > 2025-06-23 19:41:41.315 UTC [1331894] ERROR: failed NUMA pages inquiry: Bad address > 2025-06-23 19:41:41.315 UTC [1331894] STATEMENT: select * from pg_buffercache_numa; > ERROR: XX000: failed NUMA pages inquiry: Bad address > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:394 > > Repeated calls are fine. > Huh. So it's only the first call that does this? Can you maybe print the addresses passed to pg_numa_query_pages? I wonder if there's some bug in how we fill that array. Not sure why would it happen only on 32-bit systems, though. I'll create a 32-bit VM so that I can try reproducing this. regards -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-23T20:31:50Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > Huh. So it's only the first call that does this? The first call after a restart. Reconnecting is not enough. > Can you maybe print the addresses passed to pg_numa_query_pages? I The addresses look good: Breakpoint 1, pg_numa_query_pages (pid=0, count=32768, pages=0xeb44d02c, status=0xeb42c02c) at ../src/port/pg_numa.c:49 49 return numa_move_pages(pid, count, pages, NULL, status, 0); (gdb) p *pages $1 = (void *) 0xebc33000 (gdb) p pages[1] $2 = (void *) 0xebc34000 (gdb) p pages[2] $3 = (void *) 0xebc35000 > wonder if there's some bug in how we fill that array. Not sure why would > it happen only on 32-bit systems, though. I found something, but that should be harmless: --- a/contrib/pg_buffercache/pg_buffercache_pages.c +++ b/contrib/pg_buffercache/pg_buffercache_pages.c @@ -365,7 +365,7 @@ pg_buffercache_numa_pages(PG_FUNCTION_ARGS) /* Used to determine the NUMA node for all OS pages at once */ os_page_ptrs = palloc0(sizeof(void *) * os_page_count); - os_page_status = palloc(sizeof(uint64) * os_page_count); + os_page_status = palloc(sizeof(int) * os_page_count); /* Fill pointers for all the memory pages. */ idx = 0; Christoph
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-23T20:37:12Z
On 6/23/25 22:31, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Tomas Vondra >> Huh. So it's only the first call that does this? > > The first call after a restart. Reconnecting is not enough. > >> Can you maybe print the addresses passed to pg_numa_query_pages? I > > The addresses look good: > > Breakpoint 1, pg_numa_query_pages (pid=0, count=32768, pages=0xeb44d02c, status=0xeb42c02c) at ../src/port/pg_numa.c:49 > 49 return numa_move_pages(pid, count, pages, NULL, status, 0); > (gdb) p *pages > $1 = (void *) 0xebc33000 > (gdb) p pages[1] > $2 = (void *) 0xebc34000 > (gdb) p pages[2] > $3 = (void *) 0xebc35000 > Didn't you say the first ~35 addresses succeed, right? What about the addresses after that? > >> wonder if there's some bug in how we fill that array. Not sure why would >> it happen only on 32-bit systems, though. > > I found something, but that should be harmless: > > --- a/contrib/pg_buffercache/pg_buffercache_pages.c > +++ b/contrib/pg_buffercache/pg_buffercache_pages.c > @@ -365,7 +365,7 @@ pg_buffercache_numa_pages(PG_FUNCTION_ARGS) > > /* Used to determine the NUMA node for all OS pages at once */ > os_page_ptrs = palloc0(sizeof(void *) * os_page_count); > - os_page_status = palloc(sizeof(uint64) * os_page_count); > + os_page_status = palloc(sizeof(int) * os_page_count); > Yes, good catch. But as you say, that should be benign - we allocate more memory than needed, I don't think it should break anything. -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-23T20:51:49Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > Didn't you say the first ~35 addresses succeed, right? What about the > addresses after that? That was pg_shmem_allocations_numa. The pg_numa_query_pages() in there works (does not return -1), but then some of the status[] values are -14. When pg_buffercache_numa fails, pg_numa_query_pages() itself returns -14. The printed os_page_ptrs[] contents are the same for the failing and non-failing calls, so the problem is probably elsewhere. /* Fill pointers for all the memory pages. */ idx = 0; for (char *ptr = startptr; ptr < endptr; ptr += os_page_size) { + if (idx < 50) + elog(DEBUG1, "os_page_ptrs idx %d = %p", idx, ptr); os_page_ptrs[idx++] = ptr; 20:47 myon@postgres =# select * from pg_buffercache_numa; DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 0 = 0xebc44000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 1 = 0xebc45000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 2 = 0xebc46000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 3 = 0xebc47000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 4 = 0xebc48000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 5 = 0xebc49000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 6 = 0xebc4a000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 7 = 0xebc4b000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 8 = 0xebc4c000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 9 = 0xebc4d000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 10 = 0xebc4e000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 11 = 0xebc4f000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 12 = 0xebc50000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 13 = 0xebc51000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 14 = 0xebc52000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 15 = 0xebc53000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 16 = 0xebc54000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 17 = 0xebc55000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 18 = 0xebc56000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 19 = 0xebc57000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 20 = 0xebc58000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 21 = 0xebc59000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 22 = 0xebc5a000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 23 = 0xebc5b000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 24 = 0xebc5c000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 25 = 0xebc5d000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 26 = 0xebc5e000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 27 = 0xebc5f000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 28 = 0xebc60000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 29 = 0xebc61000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 30 = 0xebc62000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 31 = 0xebc63000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 32 = 0xebc64000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 33 = 0xebc65000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 34 = 0xebc66000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 35 = 0xebc67000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 36 = 0xebc68000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 37 = 0xebc69000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 38 = 0xebc6a000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 39 = 0xebc6b000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 40 = 0xebc6c000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 41 = 0xebc6d000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 42 = 0xebc6e000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 43 = 0xebc6f000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 44 = 0xebc70000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 45 = 0xebc71000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 46 = 0xebc72000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 47 = 0xebc73000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 48 = 0xebc74000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 49 = 0xebc75000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: NUMA: NBuffers=16384 os_page_count=32768 os_page_size=4096 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:385 2025-06-23 20:47:41.827 UTC [1368080] ERROR: failed NUMA pages inquiry: Bad address 2025-06-23 20:47:41.827 UTC [1368080] STATEMENT: select * from pg_buffercache_numa; ERROR: XX000: failed NUMA pages inquiry: Bad address LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:396 Time: 92.757 ms 20:47 myon@postgres =# select * from pg_buffercache_numa; DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 0 = 0xebc44000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 1 = 0xebc45000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 2 = 0xebc46000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 3 = 0xebc47000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 4 = 0xebc48000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 5 = 0xebc49000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 6 = 0xebc4a000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 7 = 0xebc4b000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 8 = 0xebc4c000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 9 = 0xebc4d000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 10 = 0xebc4e000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 11 = 0xebc4f000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 12 = 0xebc50000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 13 = 0xebc51000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 14 = 0xebc52000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 15 = 0xebc53000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 16 = 0xebc54000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 17 = 0xebc55000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 18 = 0xebc56000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 19 = 0xebc57000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 20 = 0xebc58000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 21 = 0xebc59000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 22 = 0xebc5a000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 23 = 0xebc5b000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 24 = 0xebc5c000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 25 = 0xebc5d000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 26 = 0xebc5e000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 27 = 0xebc5f000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 28 = 0xebc60000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 29 = 0xebc61000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 30 = 0xebc62000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 31 = 0xebc63000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 32 = 0xebc64000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 33 = 0xebc65000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 34 = 0xebc66000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 35 = 0xebc67000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 36 = 0xebc68000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 37 = 0xebc69000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 38 = 0xebc6a000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 39 = 0xebc6b000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 40 = 0xebc6c000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 41 = 0xebc6d000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 42 = 0xebc6e000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 43 = 0xebc6f000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 44 = 0xebc70000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 45 = 0xebc71000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 46 = 0xebc72000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 47 = 0xebc73000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 48 = 0xebc74000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 49 = 0xebc75000 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 DEBUG: 00000: NUMA: NBuffers=16384 os_page_count=32768 os_page_size=4096 LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:385 DEBUG: 00000: NUMA: page-faulting the buffercache for proper NUMA readouts LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:444 Time: 24.547 ms 20:47 myon@postgres =# Christoph -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-23T21:14:28Z
On 6/23/25 22:51, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Tomas Vondra >> Didn't you say the first ~35 addresses succeed, right? What about the >> addresses after that? > > That was pg_shmem_allocations_numa. The pg_numa_query_pages() in there > works (does not return -1), but then some of the status[] values are > -14. > > When pg_buffercache_numa fails, pg_numa_query_pages() itself > returns -14. > > The printed os_page_ptrs[] contents are the same for the failing and > non-failing calls, so the problem is probably elsewhere. > > /* Fill pointers for all the memory pages. */ > idx = 0; > for (char *ptr = startptr; ptr < endptr; ptr += os_page_size) > { > + if (idx < 50) > + elog(DEBUG1, "os_page_ptrs idx %d = %p", idx, ptr); > os_page_ptrs[idx++] = ptr; > > > 20:47 myon@postgres =# select * from pg_buffercache_numa; > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 0 = 0xebc44000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 1 = 0xebc45000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 2 = 0xebc46000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 3 = 0xebc47000 ... > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 47 = 0xebc73000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 48 = 0xebc74000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 49 = 0xebc75000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: NUMA: NBuffers=16384 os_page_count=32768 os_page_size=4096 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:385 > 2025-06-23 20:47:41.827 UTC [1368080] ERROR: failed NUMA pages inquiry: Bad address > 2025-06-23 20:47:41.827 UTC [1368080] STATEMENT: select * from pg_buffercache_numa; > ERROR: XX000: failed NUMA pages inquiry: Bad address > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:396 > Time: 92.757 ms > > 20:47 myon@postgres =# select * from pg_buffercache_numa; > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 0 = 0xebc44000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 1 = 0xebc45000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 2 = 0xebc46000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 3 = 0xebc47000 ...> DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 46 = 0xebc72000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 47 = 0xebc73000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 48 = 0xebc74000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: os_page_ptrs idx 49 = 0xebc75000 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:375 > DEBUG: 00000: NUMA: NBuffers=16384 os_page_count=32768 os_page_size=4096 > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:385 > DEBUG: 00000: NUMA: page-faulting the buffercache for proper NUMA readouts > LOCATION: pg_buffercache_numa_pages, pg_buffercache_pages.c:444 > Time: 24.547 ms > 20:47 myon@postgres =# > True. If it fails on first call, but succeeds on the other, then the problem is likely somewhere else. But also on the second call we won't do the memory touching. Can you try setting firstNumaTouch=false, so that we do this on every call? At the beginning you mentioned this is happening on i386, armel and armhf - are all those in qemu? I've tried on my rpi5 (with 32-bit user space), and there everything seems to work fine. But that's aarch64 kernel, just the user space if 32-bit. regards -- Tomas Vondra -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-23T21:25:23Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > True. If it fails on first call, but succeeds on the other, then the > problem is likely somewhere else. But also on the second call we won't > do the memory touching. Can you try setting firstNumaTouch=false, so > that we do this on every call? firstNumaTouch=false, it still fails on the first call. I assume you meant actually keeping firstNumaTouch=true - but it still fails on the first call. The memory touching is done for the first call in each backend, but reconnecting doesn't reset it, I have to restart PG. > At the beginning you mentioned this is happening on i386, armel and > armhf - are all those in qemu? I've tried on my rpi5 (with 32-bit user > space), and there everything seems to work fine. But that's aarch64 > kernel, just the user space if 32-bit. I'm testing on i386 in a chroot on a amd64 kernel. (same for x32) armel and armhf are also 32-bit chroots on a arm64 host. https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=postgresql-18&suite=experimental Maybe this is a kernel bug. Christoph
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-23T21:47:00Z
On 6/23/25 23:25, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Tomas Vondra >> True. If it fails on first call, but succeeds on the other, then the >> problem is likely somewhere else. But also on the second call we won't >> do the memory touching. Can you try setting firstNumaTouch=false, so >> that we do this on every call? > > firstNumaTouch=false, it still fails on the first call. > > I assume you meant actually keeping firstNumaTouch=true - but it still > fails on the first call. > No, I meant firstNumaTouch=false, so that the touching happens on every call. I was wondering if that makes all calls fail. > The memory touching is done for the first call in each backend, but > reconnecting doesn't reset it, I have to restart PG. > I don't follow. Why wouldn't reconnecting reset it? >> At the beginning you mentioned this is happening on i386, armel and >> armhf - are all those in qemu? I've tried on my rpi5 (with 32-bit user >> space), and there everything seems to work fine. But that's aarch64 >> kernel, just the user space if 32-bit. > > I'm testing on i386 in a chroot on a amd64 kernel. (same for x32) > armel and armhf are also 32-bit chroots on a arm64 host. > > https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=postgresql-18&suite=experimental > > Maybe this is a kernel bug. > Or maybe the 32-bit chroot on 64-bit host matters and confuses some calculation. -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-24T01:43:19Z
On 6/23/25 23:47, Tomas Vondra wrote: > ... > > Or maybe the 32-bit chroot on 64-bit host matters and confuses some > calculation. > I think it's likely something like this. I noticed that if I modify pg_buffercache_numa_pages() to query the addresses one by one, it works. And when I increase the number, it stops working somewhere between 16k and 17k items. It may be a coincidence, but I suspect it's related to the sizeof(void *) being 8 in the kernel, but only 4 in the chroot. So the userspace passes an array of 4-byte items, but kernel interprets that as 8-byte items. That is, we call long move_pages(int pid, unsigned long count, void *pages[.count], const int nodes[.count], int status[.count], int flags); Which (I assume) just passes the parameters to kernel. And it'll interpret them per kernel pointer size. If this is what's happening, I'm not sure what to do about it ... FWIW while looking into this, I tried running this under valgrind (on a regular 64-bit system, not in the chroot), and I get this report: ==65065== Invalid read of size 8 ==65065== at 0x113B0EBE: pg_buffercache_numa_pages (pg_buffercache_pages.c:380) ==65065== by 0x6B539D: ExecMakeTableFunctionResult (execSRF.c:234) ==65065== by 0x6CEB7E: FunctionNext (nodeFunctionscan.c:94) ==65065== by 0x6B6ACA: ExecScanFetch (execScan.h:126) ==65065== by 0x6B6B31: ExecScanExtended (execScan.h:170) ==65065== by 0x6B6C9D: ExecScan (execScan.c:59) ==65065== by 0x6CEF0F: ExecFunctionScan (nodeFunctionscan.c:269) ==65065== by 0x6B29FA: ExecProcNodeFirst (execProcnode.c:469) ==65065== by 0x6A6F56: ExecProcNode (executor.h:313) ==65065== by 0x6A9533: ExecutePlan (execMain.c:1679) ==65065== by 0x6A7422: standard_ExecutorRun (execMain.c:367) ==65065== by 0x6A7330: ExecutorRun (execMain.c:304) ==65065== by 0x934EF0: PortalRunSelect (pquery.c:921) ==65065== by 0x934BD8: PortalRun (pquery.c:765) ==65065== by 0x92E4CD: exec_simple_query (postgres.c:1273) ==65065== by 0x93301E: PostgresMain (postgres.c:4766) ==65065== by 0x92A88B: BackendMain (backend_startup.c:124) ==65065== by 0x85A7C7: postmaster_child_launch (launch_backend.c:290) ==65065== by 0x860111: BackendStartup (postmaster.c:3580) ==65065== by 0x85DE6F: ServerLoop (postmaster.c:1702) ==65065== Address 0x7b6c000 is in a rw- anonymous segment This fails here (on the pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required call): for (char *ptr = startptr; ptr < endptr; ptr += os_page_size) { os_page_ptrs[idx++] = ptr; /* Only need to touch memory once per backend process */ if (firstNumaTouch) pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(touch, ptr); } The 0x7b6c000 is the very first pointer, and it's the only pointer that triggers this warning. At first I thought there's something wrong with how we align the pointer using TYPEALIGN_DOWN(), but then I noticed it's actually the pointer of BufferGetBlock(1). So I'm a bit puzzled by this, and I'm not sure it's related to the other issue at all (it probably is not). It's a bit too late here, I'll continue investigating this tomorrow. -- Tomas Vondra -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-06-24T08:24:53Z
Hi, On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 03:43:19AM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: > On 6/23/25 23:47, Tomas Vondra wrote: > > ... > > > > Or maybe the 32-bit chroot on 64-bit host matters and confuses some > > calculation. > > > > I think it's likely something like this. I think the same. > I noticed that if I modify > pg_buffercache_numa_pages() to query the addresses one by one, it works. > And when I increase the number, it stops working somewhere between 16k > and 17k items. Yeah, same for me with pg_get_shmem_allocations_numa(). It works if pg_numa_query_pages() is done on chunks <= 16 pages but fails if done on more than 16 pages. It's also confirmed by test_chunk_size.c attached: $ gcc-11 -m32 -o test_chunk_size test_chunk_size.c $ ./test_chunk_size 1 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 2 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 3 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 4 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 5 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 6 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 7 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 8 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 9 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 10 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 11 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 12 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 13 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 14 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 15 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 16 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) 17 pages: 1 errors Threshold: 17 pages No error if -m32 is not used. > It may be a coincidence, but I suspect it's related to the sizeof(void > *) being 8 in the kernel, but only 4 in the chroot. So the userspace > passes an array of 4-byte items, but kernel interprets that as 8-byte > items. That is, we call > > long move_pages(int pid, unsigned long count, void *pages[.count], const > int nodes[.count], int status[.count], int flags); > > Which (I assume) just passes the parameters to kernel. And it'll > interpret them per kernel pointer size. > I also suspect something in this area... > If this is what's happening, I'm not sure what to do about it ... We could work by chunks (16?) on 32 bits but would probably produce performance degradation (we mention it in the doc though). Also would always 16 be a correct chunk size? Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-24T09:20:15Z
On 6/24/25 10:24, Bertrand Drouvot wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 03:43:19AM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: >> On 6/23/25 23:47, Tomas Vondra wrote: >>> ... >>> >>> Or maybe the 32-bit chroot on 64-bit host matters and confuses some >>> calculation. >>> >> >> I think it's likely something like this. > > I think the same. > >> I noticed that if I modify >> pg_buffercache_numa_pages() to query the addresses one by one, it works. >> And when I increase the number, it stops working somewhere between 16k >> and 17k items. > > Yeah, same for me with pg_get_shmem_allocations_numa(). It works if > pg_numa_query_pages() is done on chunks <= 16 pages but fails if done on more > than 16 pages. > > It's also confirmed by test_chunk_size.c attached: > > $ gcc-11 -m32 -o test_chunk_size test_chunk_size.c > $ ./test_chunk_size > 1 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 2 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 3 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 4 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 5 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 6 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 7 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 8 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 9 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 10 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 11 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 12 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 13 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 14 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 15 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 16 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > 17 pages: 1 errors > Threshold: 17 pages > > No error if -m32 is not used. > >> It may be a coincidence, but I suspect it's related to the sizeof(void >> *) being 8 in the kernel, but only 4 in the chroot. So the userspace >> passes an array of 4-byte items, but kernel interprets that as 8-byte >> items. That is, we call >> >> long move_pages(int pid, unsigned long count, void *pages[.count], const >> int nodes[.count], int status[.count], int flags); >> >> Which (I assume) just passes the parameters to kernel. And it'll >> interpret them per kernel pointer size. >> > > I also suspect something in this area... > >> If this is what's happening, I'm not sure what to do about it ... > > We could work by chunks (16?) on 32 bits but would probably produce performance > degradation (we mention it in the doc though). Also would always 16 be a correct > chunk size? I don't see how this would solve anything? AFAICS the problem is the two places are confused about how large the array elements are, and get to interpret that differently. Using a smaller array won't solve that. The pg function would still allocate array of 16 x 32-bit pointers, and the kernel would interpret this as 16 x 64-bit pointers. And that means the kernel will (a) write into memory beyond the allocated buffer - a clear buffer overflow, and (b) see bogus pointers, because it'll concatenate two 32-bit pointers. I don't see how using smaller array makes this correct. That it works is more a matter of luck, and also a consequence of still allocating the whole array, so there's no overflow (at least I kept that, not sure how you did the chunks). If I fix the code to make the entries 64-bit (by treating the pointers as int64), it suddenly starts working - no bad addresses, etc. Well, almost, because I get this bufferid | os_page_num | numa_node ----------+-------------+----------- 1 | 0 | 0 1 | 1 | -14 2 | 2 | 0 2 | 3 | -14 3 | 4 | 0 3 | 5 | -14 4 | 6 | 0 4 | 7 | -14 ... The -14 status is interesting, because that's the same value Christoph reported as the other issue (in pg_shmem_allocations_numa). I did an experiment and changed os_page_status to be declared as int64, not just int. And interestingly, that produced this: bufferid | os_page_num | numa_node ----------+-------------+----------- 1 | 0 | 0 1 | 1 | 0 2 | 2 | 0 2 | 3 | 0 3 | 4 | 0 3 | 5 | 0 4 | 6 | 0 4 | 7 | 0 ... But I don't see how this makes any sense, because "int" should be 4B in both cases (in 64-bit kernel and 32-bit chroot). FWIW I realized this applies to "official" systems with 32-bit user space on 64-bit kernels, like e.g. rpi5 with RPi OS 32-bit. (Fun fact, rpi5 has 8 NUMA nodes, with all CPUs attached to all NUMA nodes.) I'm starting to think we need to disable NUMA for setups like this, mixing 64-bit kernels with 32-bit chroot. Is there a good way to detect those, so that we can error-out? FWIW this doesn't explain the strange valgrind issue, though. -- Tomas Vondra -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-06-24T11:10:24Z
Hi, On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 11:20:15AM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: > On 6/24/25 10:24, Bertrand Drouvot wrote: > > Yeah, same for me with pg_get_shmem_allocations_numa(). It works if > > pg_numa_query_pages() is done on chunks <= 16 pages but fails if done on more > > than 16 pages. > > > > It's also confirmed by test_chunk_size.c attached: > > > > $ gcc-11 -m32 -o test_chunk_size test_chunk_size.c > > $ ./test_chunk_size > > 1 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 2 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 3 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 4 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 5 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 6 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 7 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 8 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 9 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 10 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 11 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 12 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 13 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 14 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 15 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 16 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) > > 17 pages: 1 errors > > Threshold: 17 pages > > > > No error if -m32 is not used. > > > > We could work by chunks (16?) on 32 bits but would probably produce performance > > degradation (we mention it in the doc though). Also would always 16 be a correct > > chunk size? > > I don't see how this would solve anything? > > AFAICS the problem is the two places are confused about how large the > array elements are, and get to interpret that differently. > I don't see how using smaller array makes this correct. That it works is > more a matter of luck, Not sure it's luck, maybe the wrong pointers arithmetic has no effect if batch size is <= 16. So we have kernel_move_pages() -> kernel_move_pages() (because nodes is NULL here for us as we call "numa_move_pages(pid, count, pages, NULL, status, 0);"). So, if we look at do_pages_stat() ([1]), we can see that it uses an hardcoded "#define DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR 16UL" and that this pointers arithmetic: " pages += chunk_nr; status += chunk_nr; " is done but has no effect since nr_pages will exit the loop if we use a batch size <= 16. So if this pointer arithmetic is not correct, (it seems that it should advance by 16 * sizeof(compat_uptr_t) instead) then it has no effect as long as the batch size is <= 16. Does test_chunk_size also fails at 17 for you? [1]: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/mm/migrate.c Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de> — 2025-06-24T11:10:50Z
Hi, On 2025-06-24 03:43:19 +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: > FWIW while looking into this, I tried running this under valgrind (on a > regular 64-bit system, not in the chroot), and I get this report: > > ==65065== Invalid read of size 8 > ==65065== at 0x113B0EBE: pg_buffercache_numa_pages > (pg_buffercache_pages.c:380) > ==65065== by 0x6B539D: ExecMakeTableFunctionResult (execSRF.c:234) > ==65065== by 0x6CEB7E: FunctionNext (nodeFunctionscan.c:94) > ==65065== by 0x6B6ACA: ExecScanFetch (execScan.h:126) > ==65065== by 0x6B6B31: ExecScanExtended (execScan.h:170) > ==65065== by 0x6B6C9D: ExecScan (execScan.c:59) > ==65065== by 0x6CEF0F: ExecFunctionScan (nodeFunctionscan.c:269) > ==65065== by 0x6B29FA: ExecProcNodeFirst (execProcnode.c:469) > ==65065== by 0x6A6F56: ExecProcNode (executor.h:313) > ==65065== by 0x6A9533: ExecutePlan (execMain.c:1679) > ==65065== by 0x6A7422: standard_ExecutorRun (execMain.c:367) > ==65065== by 0x6A7330: ExecutorRun (execMain.c:304) > ==65065== by 0x934EF0: PortalRunSelect (pquery.c:921) > ==65065== by 0x934BD8: PortalRun (pquery.c:765) > ==65065== by 0x92E4CD: exec_simple_query (postgres.c:1273) > ==65065== by 0x93301E: PostgresMain (postgres.c:4766) > ==65065== by 0x92A88B: BackendMain (backend_startup.c:124) > ==65065== by 0x85A7C7: postmaster_child_launch (launch_backend.c:290) > ==65065== by 0x860111: BackendStartup (postmaster.c:3580) > ==65065== by 0x85DE6F: ServerLoop (postmaster.c:1702) > ==65065== Address 0x7b6c000 is in a rw- anonymous segment > > > This fails here (on the pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required call): > > for (char *ptr = startptr; ptr < endptr; ptr += os_page_size) > { > os_page_ptrs[idx++] = ptr; > > /* Only need to touch memory once per backend process */ > if (firstNumaTouch) > pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(touch, ptr); > } That's because we mark unpinned pages as inaccessible / mark them as accessible when pinning. See logic related to that in PinBuffer(): /* * Assume that we acquired a buffer pin for the purposes of * Valgrind buffer client checks (even in !result case) to * keep things simple. Buffers that are unsafe to access are * not generally guaranteed to be marked undefined or * non-accessible in any case. */ > The 0x7b6c000 is the very first pointer, and it's the only pointer that > triggers this warning. I suspect that that's because valgrind combines different reports or such. Greetings, Andres Freund -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-24T12:33:59Z
On 6/24/25 13:10, Bertrand Drouvot wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 11:20:15AM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: >> On 6/24/25 10:24, Bertrand Drouvot wrote: >>> Yeah, same for me with pg_get_shmem_allocations_numa(). It works if >>> pg_numa_query_pages() is done on chunks <= 16 pages but fails if done on more >>> than 16 pages. >>> >>> It's also confirmed by test_chunk_size.c attached: >>> >>> $ gcc-11 -m32 -o test_chunk_size test_chunk_size.c >>> $ ./test_chunk_size >>> 1 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 2 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 3 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 4 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 5 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 6 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 7 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 8 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 9 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 10 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 11 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 12 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 13 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 14 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 15 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 16 pages: SUCCESS (0 errors) >>> 17 pages: 1 errors >>> Threshold: 17 pages >>> >>> No error if -m32 is not used. >>> >>> We could work by chunks (16?) on 32 bits but would probably produce performance >>> degradation (we mention it in the doc though). Also would always 16 be a correct >>> chunk size? >> >> I don't see how this would solve anything? >> >> AFAICS the problem is the two places are confused about how large the >> array elements are, and get to interpret that differently. > >> I don't see how using smaller array makes this correct. That it works is >> more a matter of luck, > > Not sure it's luck, maybe the wrong pointers arithmetic has no effect if batch > size is <= 16. > > So we have kernel_move_pages() -> kernel_move_pages() (because nodes is NULL here > for us as we call "numa_move_pages(pid, count, pages, NULL, status, 0);"). > > So, if we look at do_pages_stat() ([1]), we can see that it uses an hardcoded > "#define DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR 16UL" and that this pointers arithmetic: > > " > pages += chunk_nr; > status += chunk_nr; > " > > is done but has no effect since nr_pages will exit the loop if we use a batch > size <= 16. > > So if this pointer arithmetic is not correct, (it seems that it should advance > by 16 * sizeof(compat_uptr_t) instead) then it has no effect as long as the batch > size is <= 16. > > Does test_chunk_size also fails at 17 for you? Yes, it fails for me at 17 too. So you're saying the access within each chunk of 16 elements is OK, but that maybe advancing to the next chunk is not quite right? In which case limiting the access to 16 entries might be a workaround. In any case, this sounds like a kernel bug, right? I don't have much experience with the kernel code, so don't want to rely too much on my interpretation of it. regards -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-24T12:42:43Z
On 6/24/25 13:10, Andres Freund wrote: > Hi, > > On 2025-06-24 03:43:19 +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: >> FWIW while looking into this, I tried running this under valgrind (on a >> regular 64-bit system, not in the chroot), and I get this report: >> >> ==65065== Invalid read of size 8 >> ==65065== at 0x113B0EBE: pg_buffercache_numa_pages >> (pg_buffercache_pages.c:380) >> ==65065== by 0x6B539D: ExecMakeTableFunctionResult (execSRF.c:234) >> ==65065== by 0x6CEB7E: FunctionNext (nodeFunctionscan.c:94) >> ==65065== by 0x6B6ACA: ExecScanFetch (execScan.h:126) >> ==65065== by 0x6B6B31: ExecScanExtended (execScan.h:170) >> ==65065== by 0x6B6C9D: ExecScan (execScan.c:59) >> ==65065== by 0x6CEF0F: ExecFunctionScan (nodeFunctionscan.c:269) >> ==65065== by 0x6B29FA: ExecProcNodeFirst (execProcnode.c:469) >> ==65065== by 0x6A6F56: ExecProcNode (executor.h:313) >> ==65065== by 0x6A9533: ExecutePlan (execMain.c:1679) >> ==65065== by 0x6A7422: standard_ExecutorRun (execMain.c:367) >> ==65065== by 0x6A7330: ExecutorRun (execMain.c:304) >> ==65065== by 0x934EF0: PortalRunSelect (pquery.c:921) >> ==65065== by 0x934BD8: PortalRun (pquery.c:765) >> ==65065== by 0x92E4CD: exec_simple_query (postgres.c:1273) >> ==65065== by 0x93301E: PostgresMain (postgres.c:4766) >> ==65065== by 0x92A88B: BackendMain (backend_startup.c:124) >> ==65065== by 0x85A7C7: postmaster_child_launch (launch_backend.c:290) >> ==65065== by 0x860111: BackendStartup (postmaster.c:3580) >> ==65065== by 0x85DE6F: ServerLoop (postmaster.c:1702) >> ==65065== Address 0x7b6c000 is in a rw- anonymous segment >> >> >> This fails here (on the pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required call): >> >> for (char *ptr = startptr; ptr < endptr; ptr += os_page_size) >> { >> os_page_ptrs[idx++] = ptr; >> >> /* Only need to touch memory once per backend process */ >> if (firstNumaTouch) >> pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(touch, ptr); >> } > > That's because we mark unpinned pages as inaccessible / mark them as > accessible when pinning. See logic related to that in PinBuffer(): > > /* > * Assume that we acquired a buffer pin for the purposes of > * Valgrind buffer client checks (even in !result case) to > * keep things simple. Buffers that are unsafe to access are > * not generally guaranteed to be marked undefined or > * non-accessible in any case. > */ > > >> The 0x7b6c000 is the very first pointer, and it's the only pointer that >> triggers this warning. > > I suspect that that's because valgrind combines different reports or such. > Thanks. It probably is something like that, although I made sure to not use any such options when running valgrind (so --error-limit=no). But maybe there's something else, hiding the reports. I guess there are two ways to address this - make sure the buffers are marked as accessible/defined, or add a valgrind suppression. I think the suppression is the right approach here, otherwise we'd need to worry about already pinned buffers etc. Which seems not great, the functions don't even care about buffers right now, they mostly work with memory pages (especially pg_shmem_allocations_numa). Barring objections, I'll fix it this way. regards -- Tomas Vondra -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-06-24T13:25:07Z
Hi, On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 02:33:59PM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: > > > On 6/24/25 13:10, Bertrand Drouvot wrote: > > So, if we look at do_pages_stat() ([1]), we can see that it uses an hardcoded > > "#define DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR 16UL" and that this pointers arithmetic: > > > > " > > pages += chunk_nr; > > status += chunk_nr; > > " > > > > is done but has no effect since nr_pages will exit the loop if we use a batch > > size <= 16. > > > > So if this pointer arithmetic is not correct, (it seems that it should advance > > by 16 * sizeof(compat_uptr_t) instead) then it has no effect as long as the batch > > size is <= 16. > > > > Does test_chunk_size also fails at 17 for you? > > Yes, it fails for me at 17 too. So you're saying the access within each > chunk of 16 elements is OK, but that maybe advancing to the next chunk > is not quite right? Yes, I think compat_uptr_t usage is missing in do_pages_stat() (while it's used in do_pages_move()). Having a chunk size <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR ensures we are not affected by the wrong pointer arithmetic. > In which case limiting the access to 16 entries > might be a workaround. Yes, something like: diff --git a/src/backend/storage/ipc/shmem.c b/src/backend/storage/ipc/shmem.c index c9ae3b45b76..070ad2f13e7 100644 --- a/src/backend/storage/ipc/shmem.c +++ b/src/backend/storage/ipc/shmem.c @@ -689,8 +689,17 @@ pg_get_shmem_allocations_numa(PG_FUNCTION_ARGS) CHECK_FOR_INTERRUPTS(); } - if (pg_numa_query_pages(0, shm_ent_page_count, page_ptrs, pages_status) == -1) - elog(ERROR, "failed NUMA pages inquiry status: %m"); + #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 16 /* has to be <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR (do_pages_stat())*/ + + for (uint64 chunk_start = 0; chunk_start < shm_ent_page_count; chunk_start += NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE) { + uint64 chunk_size = Min(NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE, shm_ent_page_count - chunk_start); + + if (pg_numa_query_pages(0, chunk_size, &page_ptrs[chunk_start], + &pages_status[chunk_start]) == -1) + elog(ERROR, "failed NUMA pages inquiry status: %m"); + } + + #undef NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE > In any case, this sounds like a kernel bug, right? yes it sounds like a kernel bug. > I don't have much > experience with the kernel code, so don't want to rely too much on my > interpretation of it. I don't have that much experience too but I think the issue is in do_pages_stat() and that "pages += chunk_nr" should be advanced by sizeof(compat_uptr_t) instead. Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-24T14:41:33Z
Re: Bertrand Drouvot > Yes, I think compat_uptr_t usage is missing in do_pages_stat() (while it's used > in do_pages_move()). I was also reading the kernel source around that place but you spotted the problem before me. This patch resolves the issue here: diff --git a/mm/migrate.c b/mm/migrate.c index 8cf0f9c9599..542c81ec3ed 100644 --- a/mm/migrate.c +++ b/mm/migrate.c @@ -2444,7 +2444,13 @@ static int do_pages_stat(struct mm_struct *mm, unsigned long nr_pages, if (copy_to_user(status, chunk_status, chunk_nr * sizeof(*status))) break; - pages += chunk_nr; + if (in_compat_syscall()) { + compat_uptr_t __user *pages32 = (compat_uptr_t __user *)pages; + + pages32 += chunk_nr; + pages = (const void __user * __user *) pages32; + } else + pages += chunk_nr; status += chunk_nr; nr_pages -= chunk_nr; } > Having a chunk size <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR ensures we are not affected > by the wrong pointer arithmetic. Good idea. Buggy kernels will be around for some time. > + #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 16 /* has to be <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR (do_pages_stat())*/ > + > + for (uint64 chunk_start = 0; chunk_start < shm_ent_page_count; chunk_start += NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE) { Perhaps optimize it to this: #if sizeof(void *) == 4 #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 16 /* has to be <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR (do_pages_stat())*/ #else #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 1024 #endif ... or some other bigger number. The loop could also include CHECK_FOR_INTERRUPTS(); > > I don't have much > > experience with the kernel code, so don't want to rely too much on my > > interpretation of it. > > I don't have that much experience too but I think the issue is in do_pages_stat() > and that "pages += chunk_nr" should be advanced by sizeof(compat_uptr_t) instead. Me neither, but I'll try submit this fix. Christoph -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-24T15:04:00Z
On 6/24/25 16:41, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Bertrand Drouvot >> Yes, I think compat_uptr_t usage is missing in do_pages_stat() (while it's used >> in do_pages_move()). > > I was also reading the kernel source around that place but you spotted > the problem before me. This patch resolves the issue here: > > diff --git a/mm/migrate.c b/mm/migrate.c > index 8cf0f9c9599..542c81ec3ed 100644 > --- a/mm/migrate.c > +++ b/mm/migrate.c > @@ -2444,7 +2444,13 @@ static int do_pages_stat(struct mm_struct *mm, unsigned long nr_pages, > if (copy_to_user(status, chunk_status, chunk_nr * sizeof(*status))) > break; > > - pages += chunk_nr; > + if (in_compat_syscall()) { > + compat_uptr_t __user *pages32 = (compat_uptr_t __user *)pages; > + > + pages32 += chunk_nr; > + pages = (const void __user * __user *) pages32; > + } else > + pages += chunk_nr; > status += chunk_nr; > nr_pages -= chunk_nr; > } > > >> Having a chunk size <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR ensures we are not affected >> by the wrong pointer arithmetic. > > Good idea. Buggy kernels will be around for some time. > If it's a reliable fix, then I guess we can do it like this. But won't that be a performance penalty on everyone? Or does the system split the array into 16-element chunks anyway, so this makes no difference? Anyway, maybe we should start by reporting this to the kernel people. Do you want me to do that, or shall one of you take care of that? I suppose that'd be better, as you already wrote a fix / know the code better. >> + #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 16 /* has to be <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR (do_pages_stat())*/ >> + >> + for (uint64 chunk_start = 0; chunk_start < shm_ent_page_count; chunk_start += NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE) { > > Perhaps optimize it to this: > > #if sizeof(void *) == 4 > #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 16 /* has to be <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR (do_pages_stat())*/ > #else > #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 1024 > #endif > > ... or some other bigger number. > Hmm, maybe. I guess that'd hurt only fully 32-bit systems, but that also seems like a non-issue. > The loop could also include CHECK_FOR_INTERRUPTS(); > >>> I don't have much >>> experience with the kernel code, so don't want to rely too much on my >>> interpretation of it. >> >> I don't have that much experience too but I think the issue is in do_pages_stat() >> and that "pages += chunk_nr" should be advanced by sizeof(compat_uptr_t) instead. > > Me neither, but I'll try submit this fix. > +1 Thanks to both of you for the report and the investigation. regards -- Tomas Vondra -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-24T15:30:02Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > If it's a reliable fix, then I guess we can do it like this. But won't > that be a performance penalty on everyone? Or does the system split the > array into 16-element chunks anyway, so this makes no difference? There's still the overhead of the syscall itself. But no idea how costly it is to have this 16-step loop in user or kernel space. We could claim that on 32-bit systems, shared_buffers would be smaller anyway, so there the overhead isn't that big. And the step size should be larger (if at all) on 64-bit. > Anyway, maybe we should start by reporting this to the kernel people. Do > you want me to do that, or shall one of you take care of that? I suppose > that'd be better, as you already wrote a fix / know the code better. Submitted: https://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=175077821909222&w=2 Christoph
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-24T18:24:22Z
Re: Bertrand Drouvot > Yes, something like: > > diff --git a/src/backend/storage/ipc/shmem.c b/src/backend/storage/ipc/shmem.c > index c9ae3b45b76..070ad2f13e7 100644 > --- a/src/backend/storage/ipc/shmem.c > +++ b/src/backend/storage/ipc/shmem.c > @@ -689,8 +689,17 @@ pg_get_shmem_allocations_numa(PG_FUNCTION_ARGS) > CHECK_FOR_INTERRUPTS(); > } > > - if (pg_numa_query_pages(0, shm_ent_page_count, page_ptrs, pages_status) == -1) > - elog(ERROR, "failed NUMA pages inquiry status: %m"); > + #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 16 /* has to be <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR (do_pages_stat())*/ > + > + for (uint64 chunk_start = 0; chunk_start < shm_ent_page_count; chunk_start += NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE) { > + uint64 chunk_size = Min(NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE, shm_ent_page_count - chunk_start); > + > + if (pg_numa_query_pages(0, chunk_size, &page_ptrs[chunk_start], > + &pages_status[chunk_start]) == -1) > + elog(ERROR, "failed NUMA pages inquiry status: %m"); > + } > + > + #undef NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE I uploaded a variant of this patch to Debian and it seems to have fixed the issue: https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=postgresql-18&suite=experimental (No reply from linux-mm yet.) Christoph -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-24T20:32:25Z
On 6/24/25 17:30, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Tomas Vondra >> If it's a reliable fix, then I guess we can do it like this. But won't >> that be a performance penalty on everyone? Or does the system split the >> array into 16-element chunks anyway, so this makes no difference? > > There's still the overhead of the syscall itself. But no idea how > costly it is to have this 16-step loop in user or kernel space. > > We could claim that on 32-bit systems, shared_buffers would be smaller > anyway, so there the overhead isn't that big. And the step size should > be larger (if at all) on 64-bit. > >> Anyway, maybe we should start by reporting this to the kernel people. Do >> you want me to do that, or shall one of you take care of that? I suppose >> that'd be better, as you already wrote a fix / know the code better. > > Submitted: https://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=175077821909222&w=2 > Thanks! Now we wait ... Attached is a minor tweak of the valgrind suppresion rules, to add the two places touching the memory. I was hoping I could add a single rule for pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required, but that does not work - it's a macro, not a function. So I had to add one rule for both functions, querying the NUMA. That's a bit disappointing, because it means it'll hide all other failues (of Memcheck:Addr8 type) in those functions. Perhaps it'd be be better to turn pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required into a proper (inlined) function, at least with USE_VALGRIND defined. Something like the v2 patch - needs more testing to ensure the inlined function doesn't break the touching or something silly like that. regards -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-06-25T06:05:21Z
Hi, On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 04:41:33PM +0200, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Bertrand Drouvot > > Yes, I think compat_uptr_t usage is missing in do_pages_stat() (while it's used > > in do_pages_move()). > > I was also reading the kernel source around that place but you spotted > the problem before me. This patch resolves the issue here: > > diff --git a/mm/migrate.c b/mm/migrate.c > index 8cf0f9c9599..542c81ec3ed 100644 > --- a/mm/migrate.c > +++ b/mm/migrate.c > @@ -2444,7 +2444,13 @@ static int do_pages_stat(struct mm_struct *mm, unsigned long nr_pages, > if (copy_to_user(status, chunk_status, chunk_nr * sizeof(*status))) > break; > > - pages += chunk_nr; > + if (in_compat_syscall()) { > + compat_uptr_t __user *pages32 = (compat_uptr_t __user *)pages; > + > + pages32 += chunk_nr; > + pages = (const void __user * __user *) pages32; > + } else > + pages += chunk_nr; > status += chunk_nr; > nr_pages -= chunk_nr; > } > Thanks! Yeah, I had the same kind of patch idea in mind. > > + #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 16 /* has to be <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR (do_pages_stat())*/ > > + > > + for (uint64 chunk_start = 0; chunk_start < shm_ent_page_count; chunk_start += NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE) { > > Perhaps optimize it to this: > > #if sizeof(void *) == 4 > #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 16 /* has to be <= DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR (do_pages_stat())*/ > #else > #define NUMA_QUERY_CHUNK_SIZE 1024 > #endif > > ... or some other bigger number. I had in mind to split the batch size on the PG side only for 32-bits, what about the attached? Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-06-25T06:11:21Z
Hi, On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 05:30:02PM +0200, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Tomas Vondra > > If it's a reliable fix, then I guess we can do it like this. But won't > > that be a performance penalty on everyone? Or does the system split the > > array into 16-element chunks anyway, so this makes no difference? > > There's still the overhead of the syscall itself. But no idea how > costly it is to have this 16-step loop in user or kernel space. > > We could claim that on 32-bit systems, shared_buffers would be smaller > anyway, so there the overhead isn't that big. And the step size should > be larger (if at all) on 64-bit. Right, and we already mention in the doc that using those views is "very slow" or "can take a noticeable amount of time". > > Anyway, maybe we should start by reporting this to the kernel people. Do > > you want me to do that, or shall one of you take care of that? I suppose > > that'd be better, as you already wrote a fix / know the code better. > > Submitted: https://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=175077821909222&w=2 Thanks! I had in mind to look at how to report such a bug and provide a patch but you beat me to it. Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-06-25T06:45:55Z
Hi, On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 10:32:25PM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: > > Attached is a minor tweak of the valgrind suppresion rules, Thanks! > to add the > two places touching the memory. I was hoping I could add a single rule > for pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required, but that does not work - it's a > macro, not a function. So I had to add one rule for both functions, > querying the NUMA. That's a bit disappointing, because it means it'll > hide all other failues (of Memcheck:Addr8 type) in those functions. > Shouldn't we add 2 rules for Memcheck:Addr4 too? > Perhaps it'd be be better to turn pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required into a > proper (inlined) function, at least with USE_VALGRIND defined. Yeah I think that's probably better to reduce the scope to what we really want to. > Something > like the v2 patch - yeah, maybe: - add a rule for Memcheck:Addr4? - have the same parameters name for the macro and the function? Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Jakub Wartak <jakub.wartak@enterprisedb.com> — 2025-06-25T07:15:02Z
On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 5:30 PM Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> wrote: > > Re: Tomas Vondra > > If it's a reliable fix, then I guess we can do it like this. But won't > > that be a performance penalty on everyone? Or does the system split the > > array into 16-element chunks anyway, so this makes no difference? > > There's still the overhead of the syscall itself. But no idea how > costly it is to have this 16-step loop in user or kernel space. > > We could claim that on 32-bit systems, shared_buffers would be smaller > anyway, so there the overhead isn't that big. And the step size should > be larger (if at all) on 64-bit. > > > Anyway, maybe we should start by reporting this to the kernel people. Do > > you want me to do that, or shall one of you take care of that? I suppose > > that'd be better, as you already wrote a fix / know the code better. > > Submitted: https://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=175077821909222&w=2 > Hi all, I'm quite late to the party (just noticed the thread), but here's some addition context: it technically didn't make any sense to me to have NUMA on 32-bit due too small amount of addressable memory (after all, NUMA is about big iron, probably not even VMs), so in the first versions of the patchset I've excluded 32-bit (and back then for some reason I couldn't even find libnuma i386, but Andres pointed to me that it exists, so we re-added it probably just to stay consistent). The thread has kind of snowballed since then, but I still believe that NUMA on 32-bit does not make a lot of sense. Even assuming future shm interleaving one day in future version, allocation of small s_b sizes will usually fit a single NUMA node. -J.
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-06-25T09:00:38Z
Re: Bertrand Drouvot > +/* > + * Work around Linux kernel bug in 32-bit compat mode: do_pages_stat() has > + * incorrect pointer arithmetic for more than DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR pages. > + */ > +#if SIZEOF_SIZE_T == 4 I was also missing it in my suggested patch draft, but this should probably include #ifdef __linux__. Re: Tomas Vondra > +#ifdef USE_VALGRIND > + > +static inline void > +pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(uint64 tmp, char *ptr) Stupid question, if this function gets properly inlined, why not always use it as there should be no performance difference vs using a macro? Christoph
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-25T09:22:41Z
On 6/25/25 11:00, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Bertrand Drouvot >> +/* >> + * Work around Linux kernel bug in 32-bit compat mode: do_pages_stat() has >> + * incorrect pointer arithmetic for more than DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR pages. >> + */ >> +#if SIZEOF_SIZE_T == 4 > > I was also missing it in my suggested patch draft, but this should > probably include #ifdef __linux__. > > > Re: Tomas Vondra >> +#ifdef USE_VALGRIND >> + >> +static inline void >> +pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(uint64 tmp, char *ptr) > > Stupid question, if this function gets properly inlined, why not > always use it as there should be no performance difference vs using a > macro? > TBH I'm not 100% sure it works correctly, I need to check it actually touches the memory etc. It's possible it was discussed in one of the earlier NUMA threads, and there are reasons to do a macro. I also dislike the ifdefs because it adds subtle differences between the "normal" code and the code tested with valgrind. So just having the inlined function would be "nicer". regards -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-25T09:31:36Z
On 6/25/25 09:15, Jakub Wartak wrote: > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 5:30 PM Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> wrote: >> >> Re: Tomas Vondra >>> If it's a reliable fix, then I guess we can do it like this. But won't >>> that be a performance penalty on everyone? Or does the system split the >>> array into 16-element chunks anyway, so this makes no difference? >> >> There's still the overhead of the syscall itself. But no idea how >> costly it is to have this 16-step loop in user or kernel space. >> >> We could claim that on 32-bit systems, shared_buffers would be smaller >> anyway, so there the overhead isn't that big. And the step size should >> be larger (if at all) on 64-bit. >> >>> Anyway, maybe we should start by reporting this to the kernel people. Do >>> you want me to do that, or shall one of you take care of that? I suppose >>> that'd be better, as you already wrote a fix / know the code better. >> >> Submitted: https://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=175077821909222&w=2 >> > > Hi all, I'm quite late to the party (just noticed the thread), but > here's some addition context: it technically didn't make any sense to > me to have NUMA on 32-bit due too small amount of addressable memory > (after all, NUMA is about big iron, probably not even VMs), so in the > first versions of the patchset I've excluded 32-bit (and back then for > some reason I couldn't even find libnuma i386, but Andres pointed to > me that it exists, so we re-added it probably just to stay > consistent). The thread has kind of snowballed since then, but I still > believe that NUMA on 32-bit does not make a lot of sense. > > Even assuming future shm interleaving one day in future version, > allocation of small s_b sizes will usually fit a single NUMA node. > Not sure. I thought NUMA doesn't matter very much on 32-bit systems too, exactly because those systems tend to use small amounts of memory. But then while investigating this issue I realized even rpi5 has NUMA, in fact it has a whopping 8 nodes: debian@raspberry-32:~ $ numactl --hardware available: 8 nodes (0-7) node 0 cpus: 0 1 2 3 node 0 size: 981 MB node 0 free: 882 MB node 1 cpus: 0 1 2 3 node 1 size: 1007 MB node 1 free: 936 MB node 2 cpus: 0 1 2 3 node 2 size: 1007 MB node 2 free: 936 MB node 3 cpus: 0 1 2 3 node 3 size: 943 MB node 3 free: 873 MB node 4 cpus: 0 1 2 3 node 4 size: 1007 MB node 4 free: 936 MB node 5 cpus: 0 1 2 3 node 5 size: 1007 MB node 5 free: 935 MB node 6 cpus: 0 1 2 3 node 6 size: 1007 MB node 6 free: 936 MB node 7 cpus: 0 1 2 3 node 7 size: 990 MB node 7 free: 918 MB node distances: node 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 0: 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 1: 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 2: 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 3: 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 4: 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 5: 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 6: 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 7: 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 This is with the 32-bit system (which AFAICS means 64-bit kernel and 32-bit user space). I'm not saying it's a particularly interesting NUMA system, considering all the costs are 10, and it's not like it's critical to get the best performance on rpi5. But it's NUMA, and maybe there are some other (more practical) systems. I find it interesting mostly for testing purposes. regards -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@kurilemu.de> — 2025-06-25T12:42:49Z
On 2025-Jun-25, Tomas Vondra wrote: > Not sure. I thought NUMA doesn't matter very much on 32-bit systems too, > exactly because those systems tend to use small amounts of memory. But > then while investigating this issue I realized even rpi5 has NUMA, in > fact it has a whopping 8 nodes: > > debian@raspberry-32:~ $ numactl --hardware > available: 8 nodes (0-7) Interesting. Mine only shows a single node. alvherre@amras:~ $ uname -a Linux amras 6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712 #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.12.25-1+rpt1 (2025-04-30) aarch64 GNU/Linux alvherre@amras:~ $ sudo numactl --hardware available: 1 nodes (0) node 0 cpus: 0 1 2 3 node 0 size: 8051 MB node 0 free: 202 MB node distances: node 0 0: 10 alvherre@amras:~ $ sudo lscpu Architecture: aarch64 CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit Byte Order: Little Endian CPU(s): 4 On-line CPU(s) list: 0-3 Vendor ID: ARM Model name: Cortex-A76 Model: 1 Thread(s) per core: 1 Core(s) per cluster: 4 Socket(s): - Cluster(s): 1 Stepping: r4p1 CPU(s) scaling MHz: 62% CPU max MHz: 2400.0000 CPU min MHz: 1500.0000 BogoMIPS: 108.00 Flags: fp asimd evtstrm aes pmull sha1 sha2 crc32 atomics fphp asimdhp cpuid asimdrdm lrcpc dcpop asimddp [...] NUMA: NUMA node(s): 1 NUMA node0 CPU(s): 0-3 Did you enable something special on it maybe? ... Oh, I found this: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2024/numa-emulation-speeds-pi-5-and-other-improvements Sounds like you have this in your system and I don't in mine. -- Álvaro Herrera PostgreSQL Developer — https://www.EnterpriseDB.com/ -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-25T12:53:41Z
On 6/25/25 14:42, Álvaro Herrera wrote: > On 2025-Jun-25, Tomas Vondra wrote: > >> Not sure. I thought NUMA doesn't matter very much on 32-bit systems too, >> exactly because those systems tend to use small amounts of memory. But >> then while investigating this issue I realized even rpi5 has NUMA, in >> fact it has a whopping 8 nodes: >> >> debian@raspberry-32:~ $ numactl --hardware >> available: 8 nodes (0-7) > > Interesting. Mine only shows a single node. > > alvherre@amras:~ $ uname -a > Linux amras 6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712 #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.12.25-1+rpt1 (2025-04-30) aarch64 GNU/Linux > alvherre@amras:~ $ sudo numactl --hardware > available: 1 nodes (0) > node 0 cpus: 0 1 2 3 > node 0 size: 8051 MB > node 0 free: 202 MB > node distances: > node 0 > 0: 10 > alvherre@amras:~ $ sudo lscpu > Architecture: aarch64 > CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit > Byte Order: Little Endian > CPU(s): 4 > On-line CPU(s) list: 0-3 > Vendor ID: ARM > Model name: Cortex-A76 > Model: 1 > Thread(s) per core: 1 > Core(s) per cluster: 4 > Socket(s): - > Cluster(s): 1 > Stepping: r4p1 > CPU(s) scaling MHz: 62% > CPU max MHz: 2400.0000 > CPU min MHz: 1500.0000 > BogoMIPS: 108.00 > Flags: fp asimd evtstrm aes pmull sha1 sha2 crc32 atomics fphp > asimdhp cpuid asimdrdm lrcpc dcpop asimddp > [...] > NUMA: > NUMA node(s): 1 > NUMA node0 CPU(s): 0-3 > > > Did you enable something special on it maybe? > > ... Oh, I found this: > https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2024/numa-emulation-speeds-pi-5-and-other-improvements > Sounds like you have this in your system and I don't in mine. > I don't think I had to enable anything special. On the machine running 32-bit RaspberryPi OS I had to install a newer kernel, but I don't recall doing anything else. I certainly did not apply any kernel patches or anything like that. And it seems one of the rpi machines has exactly the same kernel version: Linux raspberry-64 6.12.25+rpt-rpi-2712 #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.12.25-1+rpt1 (2025-04-30) aarch64 GNU/Linux So I wonder what's going on, why there's no NUMA on your rpi. -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-06-26T05:28:22Z
Hi, On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 11:00:38AM +0200, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Bertrand Drouvot > > +/* > > + * Work around Linux kernel bug in 32-bit compat mode: do_pages_stat() has > > + * incorrect pointer arithmetic for more than DO_PAGES_STAT_CHUNK_NR pages. > > + */ > > +#if SIZEOF_SIZE_T == 4 > > I was also missing it in my suggested patch draft, but this should > probably include #ifdef __linux__. I'm not sure because the workaround is after this part of the code in pg_numa.c: " /* * At this point we provide support only for Linux thanks to libnuma, but in * future support for other platforms e.g. Win32 or FreeBSD might be possible * too. For Win32 NUMA APIs see * https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/procthread/numa-support */ #ifdef USE_LIBNUMA " So I guess that the "#ifdef __linux__" would have to be at a higher level anyway (should we support NUMA on more than Linux in the future). Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-06-26T06:00:59Z
Hi, On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 10:32:25PM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: > On 6/24/25 17:30, Christoph Berg wrote: > > Re: Tomas Vondra > >> If it's a reliable fix, then I guess we can do it like this. But won't > >> that be a performance penalty on everyone? Or does the system split the > >> array into 16-element chunks anyway, so this makes no difference? > > > > There's still the overhead of the syscall itself. But no idea how > > costly it is to have this 16-step loop in user or kernel space. > > > > We could claim that on 32-bit systems, shared_buffers would be smaller > > anyway, so there the overhead isn't that big. And the step size should > > be larger (if at all) on 64-bit. > > > >> Anyway, maybe we should start by reporting this to the kernel people. Do > >> you want me to do that, or shall one of you take care of that? I suppose > >> that'd be better, as you already wrote a fix / know the code better. > > > > Submitted: https://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=175077821909222&w=2 > > > > Thanks! Now we wait ... It looks like that the bug is "confirmed" and that it will be fixed: https://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=175088392116841&w=2 Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-26T08:53:26Z
On 6/26/25 08:00, Bertrand Drouvot wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 10:32:25PM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: >> On 6/24/25 17:30, Christoph Berg wrote: >>> Re: Tomas Vondra >>>> If it's a reliable fix, then I guess we can do it like this. But won't >>>> that be a performance penalty on everyone? Or does the system split the >>>> array into 16-element chunks anyway, so this makes no difference? >>> >>> There's still the overhead of the syscall itself. But no idea how >>> costly it is to have this 16-step loop in user or kernel space. >>> >>> We could claim that on 32-bit systems, shared_buffers would be smaller >>> anyway, so there the overhead isn't that big. And the step size should >>> be larger (if at all) on 64-bit. >>> >>>> Anyway, maybe we should start by reporting this to the kernel people. Do >>>> you want me to do that, or shall one of you take care of that? I suppose >>>> that'd be better, as you already wrote a fix / know the code better. >>> >>> Submitted: https://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=175077821909222&w=2 >>> >> >> Thanks! Now we wait ... > > It looks like that the bug is "confirmed" and that it will be fixed: > https://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=175088392116841&w=2 > Yay! I like how the first response is "you sent the patch wrong" ;-) cheers -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-27T14:52:08Z
Here's three small patches, that should handle the issue 0001 - Adds the batching into pg_numa_query_pages, so that the callers don't need to do anything. The batching doesn't seem to cause any performance regression. 32-bit systems can't use that much memory anyway, and on 64-bit systems the batch is sufficiently large (1024). 0002 - Silences the valgrind about the memory touching. It replaces the macro with a static inline function, and adds suppressions for both 32-bit and 64-bits. The 32-bit may be a bit pointless, because on my rpi5 valgrind produces about a bunch of other stuff anyway. But doesn't hurt. The function now looks like this: static inline void pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(void *ptr) { volatile uint64 touch pg_attribute_unused(); touch = *(volatile uint64 *) ptr; } I did a lot of testing on multiple systems to check replacing the macro with a static inline function still works - and it seems it does. But if someone thinks the function won't work, I'd like to know. 0003 - While working on these patches, it occurred to me we could/should add CHECK_FOR_INTERRUPTS() into the batch loop. This querying can take quite a bit of time, so letting people to interrupt it seems reasonable. It wasn't possible with just one call into the kernel, but with the batching we can add a CFI. Please, take a look. regards -- Tomas Vondra -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-06-27T17:33:26Z
Hi, On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 04:52:08PM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: > Here's three small patches, that should handle the issue Thanks for the patches! > 0001 - Adds the batching into pg_numa_query_pages, so that the callers > don't need to do anything. > > The batching doesn't seem to cause any performance regression. 32-bit > systems can't use that much memory anyway, and on 64-bit systems the > batch is sufficiently large (1024). === 1 -#define pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(ro_volatile_var, ptr) \ +#define pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(ptr) \ Looks unrelated, should be in 0002? === 2 I thought that it would be better to provide a batch size only in the 32-bit case (see [1]), but I now think it makes sense to also provide (a larger) one for non 32-bit (as you did) due to the CFI added in 0003 (as it's also good to have it for non 32-bit). > 0002 - Silences the valgrind about the memory touching. It replaces the > macro with a static inline function, and adds suppressions for both > 32-bit and 64-bits. The 32-bit may be a bit pointless, because on my > rpi5 valgrind produces about a bunch of other stuff anyway. But doesn't > hurt. > > The function now looks like this: > > static inline void > pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(void *ptr) > { > volatile uint64 touch pg_attribute_unused(); > touch = *(volatile uint64 *) ptr; > } > > I did a lot of testing on multiple systems to check replacing the macro > with a static inline function still works - and it seems it does. But if > someone thinks the function won't work, I'd like to know. LGTM. > 0003 - While working on these patches, it occurred to me we could/should > add CHECK_FOR_INTERRUPTS() into the batch loop. This querying can take > quite a bit of time, so letting people to interrupt it seems reasonable. > It wasn't possible with just one call into the kernel, but with the > batching we can add a CFI. Yeah, LGTM. [1]: https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/aFuRoUieUVh%2BpMfZ%40ip-10-97-1-34.eu-west-3.compute.internal Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-06-30T18:56:43Z
On 6/27/25 19:33, Bertrand Drouvot wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 04:52:08PM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: >> Here's three small patches, that should handle the issue > > Thanks for the patches! > >> 0001 - Adds the batching into pg_numa_query_pages, so that the callers >> don't need to do anything. >> >> The batching doesn't seem to cause any performance regression. 32-bit >> systems can't use that much memory anyway, and on 64-bit systems the >> batch is sufficiently large (1024). > > === 1 > > -#define pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(ro_volatile_var, ptr) \ > +#define pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(ptr) \ > > Looks unrelated, should be in 0002? > Of course, I merged it into the wrong patch. Here's a v2 that fixes this, and also reworded some of the comments and commit messages a little bit. In particular it now uses "chunking" instead of "batching". I believe bathing is "combining multiple requests into a single one", but we're doing exactly the opposite - splitting a large request into smaller ones. Which is what "chunking" does. > === 2 > > I thought that it would be better to provide a batch size only in the 32-bit > case (see [1]), but I now think it makes sense to also provide (a larger) one > for non 32-bit (as you did) due to the CFI added in 0003 (as it's also good to > have it for non 32-bit). > Agreed, I think the CFI is a good thing to have. >> 0002 - Silences the valgrind about the memory touching. It replaces the >> macro with a static inline function, and adds suppressions for both >> 32-bit and 64-bits. The 32-bit may be a bit pointless, because on my >> rpi5 valgrind produces about a bunch of other stuff anyway. But doesn't >> hurt. >> >> The function now looks like this: >> >> static inline void >> pg_numa_touch_mem_if_required(void *ptr) >> { >> volatile uint64 touch pg_attribute_unused(); >> touch = *(volatile uint64 *) ptr; >> } >> >> I did a lot of testing on multiple systems to check replacing the macro >> with a static inline function still works - and it seems it does. But if >> someone thinks the function won't work, I'd like to know. > > LGTM. > >> 0003 - While working on these patches, it occurred to me we could/should >> add CHECK_FOR_INTERRUPTS() into the batch loop. This querying can take >> quite a bit of time, so letting people to interrupt it seems reasonable. >> It wasn't possible with just one call into the kernel, but with the >> batching we can add a CFI. > > Yeah, LGTM. > Thanks! I plan to push this tomorrow morning. -- Tomas Vondra -
Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-07-01T04:06:31Z
Hi, On Mon, Jun 30, 2025 at 08:56:43PM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: > In particular it now uses "chunking" instead of "batching". I believe > bathing is "combining multiple requests into a single one", but we're > doing exactly the opposite - splitting a large request into smaller > ones. Which is what "chunking" does. I do agree that "chuncking" is more appropriate here. > I plan to push this tomorrow morning. Thanks! LGTM, just 2 nit about the commit messages: For 0001: Is it worth to add a link to the Kernel Bug report or mentioned it can be found in the discussion? For 0003: " But with the chunking, introduced to work around the do_pages_stat() bug" Do you have in mind to quote the hex commit object name that will be generated by 0001? Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-07-01T11:03:28Z
On 7/1/25 06:06, Bertrand Drouvot wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Jun 30, 2025 at 08:56:43PM +0200, Tomas Vondra wrote: >> In particular it now uses "chunking" instead of "batching". I believe >> bathing is "combining multiple requests into a single one", but we're >> doing exactly the opposite - splitting a large request into smaller >> ones. Which is what "chunking" does. > > I do agree that "chuncking" is more appropriate here. > >> I plan to push this tomorrow morning. > > Thanks! > > LGTM, just 2 nit about the commit messages: > > For 0001: > > Is it worth to add a link to the Kernel Bug report or mentioned it can be > found in the discussion? > > For 0003: > > " > But with the chunking, introduced to work around the do_pages_stat() > bug" > > Do you have in mind to quote the hex commit object name that will be generated > by 0001? > Thanks! Pushed, with both adjustments (link to kernel thread, adding the commit hash). But damn it, right after pushing I noticed two typos in the second commit message :-/ -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-07-21T20:52:12Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > >>> Submitted: https://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=175077821909222&w=2 > >>> > >> > >> Thanks! Now we wait ... > > > > It looks like that the bug is "confirmed" and that it will be fixed: > > https://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=175088392116841&w=2 If I'm reading the Linux git log correctly, the fix was merged into Linux 6.16-rc7. Yay :) > Yay! I like how the first response is "you sent the patch wrong" ;-) I would have thought that coming from two major projects that use email extensively (Debian, PostgreSQL), I would navigate that process better. But it worked in the end... Christoph
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Bertrand Drouvot <bertranddrouvot.pg@gmail.com> — 2025-07-22T07:01:09Z
Hi, On Mon, Jul 21, 2025 at 10:52:12PM +0200, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Tomas Vondra > > >>> Submitted: https://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=175077821909222&w=2 > > >>> > > >> > > >> Thanks! Now we wait ... > > > > > > It looks like that the bug is "confirmed" and that it will be fixed: > > > https://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=175088392116841&w=2 > > If I'm reading the Linux git log correctly, the fix was merged into > Linux 6.16-rc7. Yay :) Yeah! ;-) https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/10d04c26ab2b7 > > Yay! I like how the first response is "you sent the patch wrong" ;-) > > I would have thought that coming from two major projects that use > email extensively (Debian, PostgreSQL), I would navigate that process > better. But it worked in the end... Indeed, thanks! Regards, -- Bertrand Drouvot PostgreSQL Contributors Team RDS Open Source Databases Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-09-11T11:36:14Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > Thanks! Pushed, with both adjustments (link to kernel thread, adding the > commit hash). The PG18 Debian package is still carrying the contrib complement of this patch (see attachment). Should that be addressed before 18.0? Christoph
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Re: pgsql: Introduce pg_shmem_allocations_numa view
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-09-11T11:39:21Z
Re: To Tomas Vondra > The PG18 Debian package is still carrying the contrib complement of > this patch (see attachment). Ah sorry, I was confused here. I had assumed that the patch is required as long as it doesn't conflict, but it doesn't conflict since the problem was fixed inside pg_numa_query_pages() in git, while the workaround was outside. Christoph
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failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-10-16T11:38:35Z
> src/test/regress/expected/numa.out | 13 +++ > src/test/regress/expected/numa_1.out | 5 + numa_1.out is catching this error: ERROR: libnuma initialization failed or NUMA is not supported on this platform This is what I'm getting when running PG18 in docker on Debian trixie (libnuma 2.0.19). However, on older distributions, the error is different: postgres =# select * from pg_shmem_allocations_numa; ERROR: XX000: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted LOCATION: pg_get_shmem_allocations_numa, shmem.c:691 This makes the numa regression tests fail in Docker on Debian bookworm (libnuma 2.0.16) and older and all of the Ubuntu LTS releases. The attached patch makes it accept these errors, but perhaps it would be better to detect it in pg_numa_available(). Christoph
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-10-16T14:27:47Z
On 10/16/25 13:38, Christoph Berg wrote: >> src/test/regress/expected/numa.out | 13 +++ >> src/test/regress/expected/numa_1.out | 5 + > > numa_1.out is catching this error: > > ERROR: libnuma initialization failed or NUMA is not supported on this platform > > This is what I'm getting when running PG18 in docker on Debian trixie > (libnuma 2.0.19). > > However, on older distributions, the error is different: > > postgres =# select * from pg_shmem_allocations_numa; > ERROR: XX000: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted > LOCATION: pg_get_shmem_allocations_numa, shmem.c:691 > > This makes the numa regression tests fail in Docker on Debian bookworm > (libnuma 2.0.16) and older and all of the Ubuntu LTS releases. > It's probably more about the kernel version. What kernels are used by these systems? > The attached patch makes it accept these errors, but perhaps it would > be better to detect it in pg_numa_available(). > Not sure how would that work. It seems this is some sort of permission check in numa_move_pages, that's not what pg_numa_available does. Also, it may depending on the page queried (e.g. whether it's exclusive or shared by multiple processes). thanks -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-10-16T14:54:24Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > It's probably more about the kernel version. What kernels are used by > these systems? It's the very same kernel, just different docker containers on the same system. I did not investigate yet where the problem is coming from, different libnuma versions seemed like the best bet. Same (differing) results on both these systems: Linux turing 6.16.7+deb14-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.16.7-1 (2025-09-11) x86_64 GNU/Linux Linux jenkins 6.1.0-39-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.148-1 (2025-08-26) x86_64 GNU/Linux > Not sure how would that work. It seems this is some sort of permission > check in numa_move_pages, that's not what pg_numa_available does. Also, > it may depending on the page queried (e.g. whether it's exclusive or > shared by multiple processes). It's probably the lack of some process capability in that environment. Maybe there is a way to query that, but I don't know much about that yet. Christoph
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-10-16T15:06:23Z
Re: To Tomas Vondra > It's the very same kernel, just different docker containers on the > same system. I did not investigate yet where the problem is coming > from, different libnuma versions seemed like the best bet. numactl shows the problem already: Host system: $ numactl --show policy: default preferred node: current physcpubind: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 cpubind: 0 nodebind: 0 membind: 0 preferred: debian:trixie-slim container: $ numactl --show physcpubind: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 No NUMA support available on this system. debian:bookworm-slim container: $ numactl --show get_mempolicy: Operation not permitted get_mempolicy: Operation not permitted get_mempolicy: Operation not permitted get_mempolicy: Operation not permitted policy: default preferred node: current physcpubind: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 cpubind: 0 nodebind: 0 membind: 0 preferred: Running with sudo does not change the result. So maybe all that's needed is a get_mempolicy() call in pg_numa_available() ? Christoph
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-10-16T15:08:22Z
Re: To Tomas Vondra > So maybe all that's needed is a get_mempolicy() call in > pg_numa_available() ? Or perhaps give up on pg_numa_available, and just have two _1.out and _2.out that just contain the two different error messages, without trying to catch the problem. Christoph
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-10-16T15:09:59Z
On 10/16/25 16:54, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Tomas Vondra >> It's probably more about the kernel version. What kernels are used by >> these systems? > > It's the very same kernel, just different docker containers on the > same system. I did not investigate yet where the problem is coming > from, different libnuma versions seemed like the best bet. > > Same (differing) results on both these systems: > Linux turing 6.16.7+deb14-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.16.7-1 (2025-09-11) x86_64 GNU/Linux > Linux jenkins 6.1.0-39-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.148-1 (2025-08-26) x86_64 GNU/Linux > Hmmm. Those seem like relatively recent kernels. >> Not sure how would that work. It seems this is some sort of permission >> check in numa_move_pages, that's not what pg_numa_available does. Also, >> it may depending on the page queried (e.g. whether it's exclusive or >> shared by multiple processes). > > It's probably the lack of some process capability in that environment. > Maybe there is a way to query that, but I don't know much about that > yet. > move_page() manpage mentions PTRACE_MODE_READ_REALCREDS (man ptrace) so maybe that's it. -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-10-16T15:19:52Z
> So maybe all that's needed is a get_mempolicy() call in > pg_numa_available() ? numactl 2.0.19 --show does this: if (numa_available() < 0) { show_physcpubind(); printf("No NUMA support available on this system.\n"); exit(1); } int numa_available(void) { if (get_mempolicy(NULL, NULL, 0, 0, 0) < 0 && (errno == ENOSYS || errno == EPERM)) return -1; return 0; } pg_numa_available is already calling numa_available. But numactl 2.0.16 has this: int numa_available(void) { if (get_mempolicy(NULL, NULL, 0, 0, 0) < 0 && errno == ENOSYS) return -1; return 0; } ... which is not catching the "permission denied" error I am seeing. So maybe PG should implement numa_available itself like that. (Or accept the output difference so the regression tests are passing.) Christoph -
Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-10-28T15:14:43Z
On 10/16/25 17:19, Christoph Berg wrote: >> So maybe all that's needed is a get_mempolicy() call in >> pg_numa_available() ? > > ... > > So maybe PG should implement numa_available itself like that. (Or > accept the output difference so the regression tests are passing.) > I'm not sure which of those options is better. I'm a bit worried just accepting the alternative output would hide some failures in the future (although it's a low risk). So I'm leaning to adjust pg_numa_init() to also check EPERM, per the attached patch. It still calls numa_available(), so that we don't silently miss future libnuma changes. Can you check this makes it work inside the docker container? regards -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-10-28T15:20:50Z
Re: To Tomas Vondra > So maybe PG should implement numa_available itself like that. Following our discussion at pgconf.eu last week, I just implemented that. The numa and pg_buffercache tests pass in Docker on Debian bookworm now. Christoph
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-11-14T12:52:59Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > So I'm leaning to adjust pg_numa_init() to also check EPERM, per the > attached patch. It still calls numa_available(), so that we don't > silently miss future libnuma changes. > > Can you check this makes it work inside the docker container? Yes your patch works. (Sorry I meant to test earlier, but RL...) Christoph
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-11-20T12:53:48Z
On 11/14/25 13:52, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Tomas Vondra >> So I'm leaning to adjust pg_numa_init() to also check EPERM, per the >> attached patch. It still calls numa_available(), so that we don't >> silently miss future libnuma changes. >> >> Can you check this makes it work inside the docker container? > > Yes your patch works. (Sorry I meant to test earlier, but RL...) > Thanks. I've pushed the fix (and backpatched to 18). regards -- Tomas Vondra
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-12-11T12:29:14Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > >> So I'm leaning to adjust pg_numa_init() to also check EPERM, per the > >> attached patch. It still calls numa_available(), so that we don't > >> silently miss future libnuma changes. > >> > >> Can you check this makes it work inside the docker container? > > > > Yes your patch works. (Sorry I meant to test earlier, but RL...) > > Thanks. I've pushed the fix (and backpatched to 18). It looks like we are not done here yet :( postgresql-18 is failing here intermittently with this diff: 12:20:24 --- /build/reproducible-path/postgresql-18-18.1/src/test/regress/expected/numa.out 2025-11-10 21:52:06.000000000 +0000 12:20:24 +++ /build/reproducible-path/postgresql-18-18.1/build/src/test/regress/results/numa.out 2025-12-11 11:20:22.618989603 +0000 12:20:24 @@ -6,8 +6,4 @@ 12:20:24 -- switch to superuser 12:20:24 \c - 12:20:24 SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa; 12:20:24 - ok 12:20:24 ----- 12:20:24 - t 12:20:24 -(1 row) 12:20:24 - 12:20:24 +ERROR: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -2 That's REL_18_STABLE @ 580b5c, with the Debian packaging on top. I've seen it on unstable/amd64, unstable/arm64, and Ubuntu questing/amd64, where libnuma should take care of this itself, without the extra patch in PG. There was another case on bullseye/amd64 which has the old libnuma. It's been frequent enough so it killed 4 out of the 10 builds currently visible on https://jengus.postgresql.org/job/postgresql-18-binaries-snapshot/. (Though to be fair, only one distribution/arch combination was failing for each of them.) There is also one instance of it in https://jengus.postgresql.org/job/postgresql-19-binaries-snapshot/ I currently have no idea what's happening. Christoph
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-12-11T12:46:54Z
On 12/11/25 13:29, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Tomas Vondra >>>> So I'm leaning to adjust pg_numa_init() to also check EPERM, per the >>>> attached patch. It still calls numa_available(), so that we don't >>>> silently miss future libnuma changes. >>>> >>>> Can you check this makes it work inside the docker container? >>> >>> Yes your patch works. (Sorry I meant to test earlier, but RL...) >> >> Thanks. I've pushed the fix (and backpatched to 18). > > It looks like we are not done here yet :( > > postgresql-18 is failing here intermittently with this diff: > > 12:20:24 --- /build/reproducible-path/postgresql-18-18.1/src/test/regress/expected/numa.out 2025-11-10 21:52:06.000000000 +0000 > 12:20:24 +++ /build/reproducible-path/postgresql-18-18.1/build/src/test/regress/results/numa.out 2025-12-11 11:20:22.618989603 +0000 > 12:20:24 @@ -6,8 +6,4 @@ > 12:20:24 -- switch to superuser > 12:20:24 \c - > 12:20:24 SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa; > 12:20:24 - ok > 12:20:24 ----- > 12:20:24 - t > 12:20:24 -(1 row) > 12:20:24 - > 12:20:24 +ERROR: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -2 > > That's REL_18_STABLE @ 580b5c, with the Debian packaging on top. > > I've seen it on unstable/amd64, unstable/arm64, and Ubuntu > questing/amd64, where libnuma should take care of this itself, without > the extra patch in PG. There was another case on bullseye/amd64 which > has the old libnuma. > > It's been frequent enough so it killed 4 out of the 10 builds > currently visible on > https://jengus.postgresql.org/job/postgresql-18-binaries-snapshot/. > (Though to be fair, only one distribution/arch combination was failing > for each of them.) > > There is also one instance of it in > https://jengus.postgresql.org/job/postgresql-19-binaries-snapshot/ > > I currently have no idea what's happening. > Hmmm, strange. -2 is ENOENT, which should mean this: -ENOENT The page is not present. But what does "not present" mean in this context? And why would that be only intermittent? Presumably this is still running in Docker, so maybe it's another weird consequence of that? regards -- Tomas Vondra -
Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-12-13T17:36:07Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > Hmmm, strange. -2 is ENOENT, which should mean this: > > -ENOENT > The page is not present. > > But what does "not present" mean in this context? And why would that be > only intermittent? Presumably this is still running in Docker, so maybe > it's another weird consequence of that? Sorry I forgot to mention that this is now in the normal apt.pg.o build environment (chroots without any funky permission restrictions). I have not tried Docker yet. I think it was not happening before the backport of the Docker fix. But I have no idea why this should have broken anything, and why it would only happen like 3% of the time. Christoph
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-12-16T13:16:30Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > Hmmm, strange. -2 is ENOENT, which should mean this: > > -ENOENT > The page is not present. > > But what does "not present" mean in this context? And why would that be > only intermittent? Presumably this is still running in Docker, so maybe > it's another weird consequence of that? I've managed to reproduce it once, running this loop on 18-as-of-today. It errored out after a few 100 iterations: while psql -c 'SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa'; do :; done 2025-12-16 11:49:35.982 UTC [621807] myon@postgres ERROR: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -2 2025-12-16 11:49:35.982 UTC [621807] myon@postgres STATEMENT: SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa That was on the apt.pg.o amd64 build machine while a few things were just building. Maybe ENOENT "The page is not present" means something was just swapped out because the machine was under heavy load. I tried reading the kernel source and it sounds related: * If the source virtual memory range has any unmapped holes, or if * the destination virtual memory range is not a whole unmapped hole, * move_pages() will fail respectively with -ENOENT or -EEXIST. This * provides a very strict behavior to avoid any chance of memory * corruption going unnoticed if there are userland race conditions. * Only one thread should resolve the userland page fault at any given * time for any given faulting address. This means that if two threads * try to both call move_pages() on the same destination address at the * same time, the second thread will get an explicit error from this * command. ... * The UFFDIO_MOVE_MODE_ALLOW_SRC_HOLES flag can be specified to * prevent -ENOENT errors to materialize if there are holes in the * source virtual range that is being remapped. The holes will be * accounted as successfully remapped in the retval of the * command. This is mostly useful to remap hugepage naturally aligned * virtual regions without knowing if there are transparent hugepage * in the regions or not, but preventing the risk of having to split * the hugepmd during the remap. ... ssize_t move_pages(struct userfaultfd_ctx *ctx, unsigned long dst_start, unsigned long src_start, unsigned long len, __u64 mode) ... if (!(mode & UFFDIO_MOVE_MODE_ALLOW_SRC_HOLES)) { err = -ENOENT; break; What I don't understand yet is why this move_pages() signature does not match the one from libnuma and move_pages(2) (note "mode" vs "flags"): int numa_move_pages(int pid, unsigned long count, void **pages, const int *nodes, int *status, int flags) { return move_pages(pid, count, pages, nodes, status, flags); } I guess the answer is somewhere in that gap. > ERROR: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -2 Maybe instead of putting sanity checks on what the kernel is returning, we should just pass that through to the user? (Or perhaps transform negative numbers to NULL?) Christoph -
Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-12-16T14:48:38Z
Re: To Tomas Vondra > I've managed to reproduce it once, running this loop on > 18-as-of-today. It errored out after a few 100 iterations: > > while psql -c 'SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa'; do :; done > > 2025-12-16 11:49:35.982 UTC [621807] myon@postgres ERROR: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -2 > 2025-12-16 11:49:35.982 UTC [621807] myon@postgres STATEMENT: SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa > > That was on the apt.pg.o amd64 build machine while a few things were > just building. Maybe ENOENT "The page is not present" means something > was just swapped out because the machine was under heavy load. I played a bit more with it. * It seems to trigger only once for a running cluster. The next one needs a restart * If it doesn't trigger within the first 30s, it probably never will * It seems easier to trigger on a system that is under load (I started a few pgmodeler compile runs in parallel (C++)) But none of that answers the "why". Christoph
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-12-16T15:17:51Z
On 12/16/25 15:48, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: To Tomas Vondra >> I've managed to reproduce it once, running this loop on >> 18-as-of-today. It errored out after a few 100 iterations: >> >> while psql -c 'SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa'; do :; done >> >> 2025-12-16 11:49:35.982 UTC [621807] myon@postgres ERROR: invalid NUMA node id outside of allowed range [0, 0]: -2 >> 2025-12-16 11:49:35.982 UTC [621807] myon@postgres STATEMENT: SELECT COUNT(*) >= 0 AS ok FROM pg_shmem_allocations_numa >> >> That was on the apt.pg.o amd64 build machine while a few things were >> just building. Maybe ENOENT "The page is not present" means something >> was just swapped out because the machine was under heavy load. > > I played a bit more with it. > > * It seems to trigger only once for a running cluster. The next one > needs a restart > * If it doesn't trigger within the first 30s, it probably never will > * It seems easier to trigger on a system that is under load (I started > a few pgmodeler compile runs in parallel (C++)) > > But none of that answers the "why". > Hmmm, so this is interesting. I tried this on my workstation (with a single NUMA node), and I see this: 1) right after opening a connection, I get this test=# select numa_node, count(*) from pg_buffercache_numa group by 1; numa_node | count -----------+------- 0 | 290 -2 | 32478 (2 rows) 2) but a select from pg_shmem_allocations_numa works fine test=# select numa_node, count(*) from pg_shmem_allocations_numa group by 1; numa_node | count -----------+------- 0 | 72 (1 row) 3) and if I repeat the pg_buffercache_numa query, it now works test=# select numa_node, count(*) from pg_buffercache_numa group by 1; numa_node | count -----------+------- 0 | 32768 (1 row) That's a bit strange. I have no idea why is this happening. If I reconnect, I start getting the failures again. regards -- Tomas Vondra -
Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> — 2025-12-16T17:54:46Z
Re: Tomas Vondra > 1) right after opening a connection, I get this > > test=# select numa_node, count(*) from pg_buffercache_numa group by 1; > numa_node | count > -----------+------- > 0 | 290 > -2 | 32478 Does that mean that the "touch all pages" logic is missing in some code paths? But even with that, it seems to be able to degenerate again and accepting -2 in the regression tests would be required to make it stable. Christoph
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Re: failed NUMA pages inquiry status: Operation not permitted
Tomas Vondra <tomas@vondra.me> — 2025-12-17T11:07:53Z
On 12/16/25 18:54, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Tomas Vondra >> 1) right after opening a connection, I get this >> >> test=# select numa_node, count(*) from pg_buffercache_numa group by 1; >> numa_node | count >> -----------+------- >> 0 | 290 >> -2 | 32478 > > Does that mean that the "touch all pages" logic is missing in some > code paths? > I did check and AFAICS we are touching the pages in pg_buffercache_numa. To make it even more confusing, I can no longer reproduce the behavior I reported yesterday. It just consistently reports "0" and I have no idea why it changed :-( I did restart since yesterday, so maybe that changed something. > But even with that, it seems to be able to degenerate again and > accepting -2 in the regression tests would be required to make it > stable. > No opinion yet. Either the -2 can happen occasionally, and then we'd need to adjust the regression tests. Or maybe it's some thinko, and then it'd be good to figure out why it's happening. I find it interesting it does not seem to fail on the buildfarm. Or at least I'm not aware of such failures. Even a rare failure should show itself on the buildfarm a couple times, so how come it didn't? regards -- Tomas Vondra