Thread

1. Re: Postgresql -- initial impressions and comments

   wsheldah@lexmark.com — 2002-12-04T21:03:45Z

   Thanks for your summary and very constructive criticism. I've also found
   the postgresql community to be very helpful and supportive. (Thanks
   everyone!)
   
   I want to add something with regard to security and running as root.
   First, if postgresql runs as root and is bound to an internal interface,
   someone getting root access to the box through a postgresql exploit would
   have access to everything on that box, including other interfaces. Second,
   many security threats and attacks are launched from within companies, or
   from within corporate firewalls. You need to guard against these as well.
   This could happen either because an employee or contractor decides to work
   against the company for whatever reason, or because another box on the LAN
   is compromised from outside, and is then used to attack other servers
   within the LAN. You can never have too many layers of security, especially
   when you get an extra layer for the low low price of adding another user
   and group. :-)
   
   Wes Sheldahl
   
   
   
   
   "j.random.programmer" <javadesigner@yahoo.com>@postgresql.org on 12/04/2002
   02:14:37 PM
   
   Sent by:    pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
   
   
   To:    pgsql-general@postgresql.org
   cc:
   Subject:    Re: [GENERAL] Postgresql -- initial impressions and comments
   
   
   Thanks to everyone who responded to my initial post.
   Here are some followup comments:
   
   ---------------------------------------
   Original:
   No way to grant permissions on all tables
   within a database to some user. You have to grant
   permissions on each table one-by-one.
   
   Other comments:
   Many folks gave examples on how to do this
   via shell or plpgsql script.
   
   Followup:
   My suggestion is: please add a link from
   the command reference documentation page for the GRANT
   command to the appropriate page on
   technotes.postgresql.com that talks about this issue.
   
   ---------------------------------------
   Original:
   INSERT into foo values (null, 'a', 'b',...) does not
   work if the first column is serial. (null cannot be
   inserted into serial type).
   
   Other comments:
   - Even though mysql allows it, inserting null values
   into primary key fields and expecting the database to
   fill in the next 'autoincrement' value... that just
   seems very non-intuitive to me
   - NULL is not the same as DEFAULT.  Treating it the
   same is not correct.
   
   Followup:
   Please mention the ability to use 'DEFAULT' in the
   documentation for the serial type.
   
   ---------------------------------------
   Original:
   My wanting to run postmaster as non-root
   
   Other comments:
   - there is no good reason for running as root, so
   it's ok to forbit it.
   - This feature (mysql mis-feature?) isn't likely to
   change any time soon.
   
   Followup:
   It's clear that everyone thinks this is a
   bad idea. I have to disgree here. I should be allowed
   to do what I want even if it's a security risk as long
   as that risk is known/explained. It's _not_ an issue
   if I bind the daemon to a ip/interface which is
   guaranteed private and non-routable (such as
   192.168.x.x) and non-forwardable. Then there is no
   risk. But it's not really a significant issue either
   way - creating a new user/group is not a big deal.
   
   ---------------------------------------
   Original: About lack of documentatin for MD5 password
   encryption (which btw, is the default encryption for
   all passwords when 7.3 is compiled out of the box).
   Does the JDBC driver do this automatically ?
   
   Other comments:
   Yes. You need a fairly late model jdbc driver.
   
   Followup:
   I am not seeing this with latest compiled JDBC driver
   which I downloaded yesterday (for JDK 1.4 and postgres
   7.3). There is also no mention of this in the JDBC
   driver's documentation. Essentially, I cannot connect
   using JDBC unless I change the connect mode to
   "trust".
   
   ---------------------------------------
   Original:
   The documentation needs to be radically improved.
   
   Other comments:
   - I usually find everything i need in the Reference
   Guide, if not it's in the Users Guide.
   - What needs to be changed from a "newbie" perspective
   ?
   
   Followup:
   I am not sure I can point to any one thing that needs
   to be changed. But somehow the userland (not
   internals) documentation "feels" incomplete, compared
   to the extensive mysql docs. Maybe the docs are a) too
   spread out b) don't have enough examples c) are not
   totally up-to-date
   ---------------------------------------
   
   Original:
   No docs for importing/exporting comma or tab
   delimited files from/to tables ?
   
   Other comments:
   try "man pg_dump". Also read the documentation:
   http://www.se.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/7.3/postgres/backup.html
   
   Importing:
   http://www.se.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/7.3/postgres/sql-copy.html
   
   Followup:
   I was wrong about this. As the followup above stated,
   the documentation does cover this.
   ---------------------------------------
   
   Overall:
   
   I must say that I found the postgres community very
   helful and responsive. In the end, that's - by far -
   the most important thing. If I was to undertake a
   production postgres project, I would feel comfortable
   for this very reason.
   
   I did also find some JDBC specific issues that I
   posted to the JDBC list. Meanwhile, I am going to keep
   playing with postgres and make sure that my programs
   work with both mysql and postgresql.
   
   Best regards,
   
   --j
   
   
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2. Re: Postgresql -- initial impressions and comments

   scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com> — 2002-12-04T23:13:58Z

   On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 wsheldah@lexmark.com wrote:
   
   > 
   > Thanks for your summary and very constructive criticism. I've also found
   > the postgresql community to be very helpful and supportive. (Thanks
   > everyone!)
   > 
   > I want to add something with regard to security and running as root.
   > First, if postgresql runs as root and is bound to an internal interface,
   > someone getting root access to the box through a postgresql exploit would
   > have access to everything on that box, including other interfaces. Second,
   > many security threats and attacks are launched from within companies, or
   > from within corporate firewalls. You need to guard against these as well.
   > This could happen either because an employee or contractor decides to work
   > against the company for whatever reason, or because another box on the LAN
   > is compromised from outside, and is then used to attack other servers
   > within the LAN. You can never have too many layers of security, especially
   > when you get an extra layer for the low low price of adding another user
   > and group. :-)
   
   also, think of a mistake with the copy command:
   
   copy table to /etc/passwd;
   or
   copy table to /dev/hda;
   
   As postgres, no big deal.  Access denied.  As root, kaboom.