Thread

1. Do you recommend 8.4 or 9.0 for basic usage?

   MauMau <maumau307@gmail.com> — 2011-05-22T10:18:55Z

   Hello,
   
   Could you give me your frank opinions about which of 8.4 or 9.0 you 
   recommend to ISVs who embed PostgreSQL?
   
   We have used PostgreSQL 8.3 as a data repository of our software products. 
   Now we are developing the new versions of those existing products and a new 
   product. So, we are considering taking this opportunity to migrate to 
   PostgreSQL 8.4 or 9.0, because newer PostgreSQL versions will be supported 
   longer and offer features like visibility map and auto-sizing of free space 
   map that contribute to steadier operation.
   
   We are considering which of 8.4 or 9.0 we should use. We value, in this 
   order,  steady operation, software quality (less bugs), troubleshooting 
   functionality, and better compatibility for future versions (smoother 
   migration to 9.1 or later). We are just using basic simple read/write SQL 
   statements, online backup and recovery with continuous WAL archiving 
   (pg_start_backup/pg_stop_backup, etc.), so won't yet have a chance to 
   utilize most of 9.0's advanced functionality such as HS/SR, PL/pgSQL 
   enhancements, and so on. With that said, the following 9.0 features seem 
   interesting because they may help better operation:
   
   * pg_upgrade
   * speed up of VACUUM FULL
   * buffer access counts of EXPLAIN, auto-explain, and pg_stat_statements
   * logging of column values that violate unique key constraints
   * pg_table_size/pg_index_size
   
   We are wondering whether 9.0 is stable enough within the range of basic SQL 
   operations and backup/recovery so that you recommend taking advantage of 
   above features. Please let me hear your raw sense about 9.0 stableness as 
   developers who know the code well, after seeing many bug reports so far and 
   experiencing four minor releases. Do you recommend 8.4 or 9.0?
   
   For reference, I collected the following data from the attached bug lists. 
   The number of regressions in 9.0 appear to be a bit high releative to 
   previous major releases. So I'm concerned that many new features might be 
   affecting the quality of features that have existed since before 9.0.
   
         8.3  8.4  9.0
   initial release date  2008-2-4  2009-7-1  2010-9-20
   months between initial release and latest minor release  38  21  7
   # of minor releases  15  8  4
   total # of fixed bugs  314  227  81
   # of fixed bugs newly made in each major release  107  82  33
   # of fixed regressions  7  4  4
   
   
   Regards
   MauMau
   

2. Re: Do you recommend 8.4 or 9.0 for basic usage?

   Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> — 2011-05-22T17:32:48Z

   MauMau,
   
   > Could you give me your frank opinions about which of 8.4 or 9.0 you
   > recommend to ISVs who embed PostgreSQL?
   
   So, first of all, you posted this question to the wrong list.  pgsql-general or pgsql-admin would have been more appropriate for this question.
   
   That being said, I find your statistics on bug fixes interesting, so thank you for collecting them.
   
   However, at this time there have already been four update releases for 9.0, so you can be fairly assured that any major bugs have been fixed.  9.0 was definitely a higher patch release (and longer beta) than 8.4 specifically because of streaming replication & hot standby.  Those are major, complex features which offer the opportunity for issues which only occur in multi-server configurations and are thus hard to test for.
   
   Our company has multiple ISV clients who are deploying products built on 9.0.X, and to date have had no special issues.
   
   As an ISV, though, you need to devise a plan whereby you can apply update releases to your client's machines if they are connected to the internet.  One of the primary reasons for update releases is closing security holes, which means that you need to have a way to upgrade your customers.  Some of the biggest issues we've seen in our clients is that an inability to apply in-the-field updates causing customers to experience bugs which have long been fixed in PostgreSQL releases.
   
   -- 
   Josh Berkus
   PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
   http://pgexperts.com
   San Francisco
   
   

3. Re: Do you recommend 8.4 or 9.0 for basic usage?

   MauMau <maumau307@gmail.com> — 2011-05-22T21:02:22Z

   Josh,
   
   From: "Joshua Berkus" <josh@agliodbs.com>
   >> Could you give me your frank opinions about which of 8.4 or 9.0 you
   >> recommend to ISVs who embed PostgreSQL?
   >
   > So, first of all, you posted this question to the wrong list. 
   > pgsql-general or pgsql-admin would have been more appropriate for this 
   > question.
   
   > However, at this time there have already been four update releases for 
   > 9.0, so you can be fairly assured that any major bugs have been fixed. 
   > 9.0 was definitely a higher patch release (and longer beta) than 8.4 
   > specifically because of streaming replication & hot standby.  Those are 
   > major, complex features which offer the opportunity for issues which only 
   > occur in multi-server configurations and are thus hard to test for.
   >
   > Our company has multiple ISV clients who are deploying products built on 
   > 9.0.X, and to date have had no special issues.
   >
   > As an ISV, though, you need to devise a plan whereby you can apply update 
   > releases to your client's machines if they are connected to the internet. 
   > One of the primary reasons for update releases is closing security holes, 
   > which means that you need to have a way to upgrade your customers.  Some 
   > of the biggest issues we've seen in our clients is that an inability to 
   > apply in-the-field updates causing customers to experience bugs which have 
   > long been fixed in PostgreSQL releases.
   
   Thank you very much for offering your experience and advice, I'd like to 
   share your voice with my boss. And I'm sorry for posting to the wrong list. 
   Yes, I was torn between pgsql-hackers and pgsql-general. I didn't want to 
   unintentionally give misconception about 9.0 quality to general users, so I 
   kept the mail here in the end.
   
   Regards,
   MauMau
   
   
   

4. Re: Do you recommend 8.4 or 9.0 for basic usage?

   David Fetter <david@fetter.org> — 2011-05-23T15:03:47Z

   On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 12:32:48PM -0500, Josh Berkus wrote:
   > MauMau,
   > 
   > > Could you give me your frank opinions about which of 8.4 or 9.0
   > > you recommend to ISVs who embed PostgreSQL?
   
   > As an ISV, though, you need to devise a plan whereby you can apply
   > update releases to your client's machines if they are connected to
   > the internet.
   
   You need such a plan whether the clients' machines are connected to
   the internet or not because access control[1] is not the only place
   where your system may turn out to have bugs.
   
   The only case where you will not need such a plan is for a disposable
   system, i.e. where the decision tree for "there's a bug" has one
   branch, which is "replace the system."
   
   Cheers,
   David.
   
   [1] Please try hard not to confuse access control with security.
   Access control has been, is, and will continue to be used by attackers
   to damage systems from ones as small as chat rooms all the way up to
   governments and economies.
   -- 
   David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
   Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
   Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com
   iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics
   
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