Thread

License question

prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> — 2024-11-22T05:40:50Z

Hello There,I am looking to install PostgreSQL on a Microsoft Azure cloud VM for a product I am developing for business purpose. Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
Thanks,Prashant

Re: License question

Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com> — 2024-11-25T19:59:13Z


> On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.

PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license:

	https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/

No payment is required to download and run it.

RE: License question

Clay Jackson (cjackson) <clay.jackson@quest.com> — 2024-11-25T22:47:07Z

Christophe is spot on when it comes to the PostgreSQL software.

Not trying to be "snarky" or condescending, but there are some other considerations.   "Open Source" or "Free" does not mean "without cost".

No matter where you decide to host the software, there will be storage, compute, and network costs, not only to support the software itself, but also the data you store.

With respect to the data, since you or your employer have decided to persistently store the data in a database, I would presume the data, and more importantly, access to that data, has value.

It seems from the original post that you've decided to pay someone (a cloud vendor) to "take care" of the storage, network, and compute "services".  That's great!

But, what about that "non-licensed" software?   Once you use that software to store and access your data, you have created a CONTINUING need for that software.   What will it cost you or your employer if a "bug" in that software prevents access to, or worse yet, corrupts your data.

Are you willing to sign up for "maintaining" PostgreSQL in your environment, INCLUDING things like patching, finding and fixing bugs, upgrades, backup and recovery, and off-hours support?  If you or your employer have any concerns about this, and IHMO, you should, you might want to consider a "licensed and supported" version of PostgreSQL.  There are several out there, including EDB and others.  Even the big cloud vendors have "support plans" for PostgreSQL.

Oh, and don't forget, a backup only as good as the last time you tested a restore.

Clay Jackson
Database Solutions Architect
clay.jackson@quest.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2024 11:59 AM
To: prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Subject: Re: License question

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not follow guidance, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

> On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.

PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license:

        https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/

No payment is required to download and run it.

Re: License question

Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com> — 2024-11-25T23:52:04Z

On 11/25/24 14:47, Clay Jackson (cjackson) wrote:
> Christophe is spot on when it comes to the PostgreSQL software.
> 
> Not trying to be "snarky" or condescending, but there are some other considerations.   "Open Source" or "Free" does not mean "without cost".
> 
> No matter where you decide to host the software, there will be storage, compute, and network costs, not only to support the software itself, but also the data you store.
> 
> With respect to the data, since you or your employer have decided to persistently store the data in a database, I would presume the data, and more importantly, access to that data, has value.
> 
> It seems from the original post that you've decided to pay someone (a cloud vendor) to "take care" of the storage, network, and compute "services".  That's great!
> 
> But, what about that "non-licensed" software?   Once you use that software to store and access your data, you have created a CONTINUING need for that software.   What will it cost you or your employer if a "bug" in that software prevents access to, or worse yet, corrupts your data.

1) It is not "non-licensed", it is permissively licensed.

2) Not sure what the point of '... CONTINUING need for that software' 
is? If you have a process that depends on something to run then you have 
established a need. If you don't want that then don't start any project.


> 
> Are you willing to sign up for "maintaining" PostgreSQL in your environment, INCLUDING things like patching, finding and fixing bugs, upgrades, backup and recovery, and off-hours support?  If you or your employer have any concerns about this, and IHMO, you should, you might want to consider a "licensed and supported" version of PostgreSQL.  There are several out there, including EDB and others.  Even the big cloud vendors have "support plans" for PostgreSQL.

That is done by the community as shown here:

https://www.postgresql.org/developer/

and here:

https://www.postgresql.org/support/

and here:

https://www.postgresql.org/support/versioning/

and here:

https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/backup.html


As to off hours support look at the timestamps here:

https://www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-general/


Now if you want a specific company to contact then yes there is this:

https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/

https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_hosting/



> 
> Oh, and don't forget, a backup only as good as the last time you tested a restore.
> 
> Clay Jackson
> Database Solutions Architect
> clay.jackson@quest.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2024 11:59 AM
> To: prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>
> Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: License question
> 

-- 
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@aklaver.com

Re: License question

Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com> — 2024-11-26T01:05:43Z

On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 5:47 PM Clay Jackson (cjackson) <
Clay.Jackson@quest.com> wrote:
[snip]

> Are you willing to sign up for "maintaining" PostgreSQL in your
> environment, INCLUDING things like patching, finding and fixing bugs,
> upgrades, backup and recovery, and off-hours support?

Azure's Postgresql managed database handles all that (except off-hours
support) for you, and there's much less off-hours support required (at
least there was with AWS RDS Postgresql, so pressuming so with Azure, too).

Of course, OP just mentioned an Azure VM, so he'd have to do all that
himself.

Using the Azure Postgresql managed database still means you'll have to
think about archiving data, and properly configuring PG (mainly autovacuum
parameters).

-- 
Death to <Redacted>, and butter sauce.
Don't boil me, I'm still alive.
<Redacted> lobster!

RE: License question

Clay Jackson (cjackson) <clay.jackson@quest.com> — 2024-11-26T01:20:22Z

Thanks, Ron!   Exactly my points!

I do not want to “discount” the community in ANY way.    In fact, I’m a huge fan of Open Source, as long as everyone, including “management”, is bought into community support concept.

I’ve seen the “wrong side” of “What do you mean, ‘You posted something to the list’?   Why can’t you CALL someone (and/or get someone logged in) RIGHT NOW?” discussions, usually “in the heat of battle”,  a few too many times.

Of course, the flip side of this is “Whew – the community solved this before the <large software support organization> even got back to me”.

It comes down to being “fully informed”.


Clay Jackson
Database Solutions Architect


From: Ron Johnson <ronljohnsonjr@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2024 5:06 PM
To: pgsql-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: License question

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not follow guidance, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 5:47 PM Clay Jackson (cjackson) <Clay.Jackson@quest.com<mailto:Clay.Jackson@quest.com>> wrote:
[snip]
Are you willing to sign up for "maintaining" PostgreSQL in your environment, INCLUDING things like patching, finding and fixing bugs, upgrades, backup and recovery, and off-hours support?

Azure's Postgresql managed database handles all that (except off-hours support) for you, and there's much less off-hours support required (at least there was with AWS RDS Postgresql, so pressuming so with Azure, too).

Of course, OP just mentioned an Azure VM, so he'd have to do all that himself.

Using the Azure Postgresql managed database still means you'll have to think about archiving data, and properly configuring PG (mainly autovacuum parameters).

--
Death to <Redacted>, and butter sauce.
Don't boil me, I'm still alive.
<Redacted> lobster!

Re: License question

Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@lists.simkin.ca> — 2024-11-26T01:40:54Z

On Fri, 2024-11-22 at 05:40 +0000, prashant sinha wrote:
> Hello There,
> I am looking to install PostgreSQL on a Microsoft Azure cloud VM
> for a product I am developing for business purpose. Is there a free
> version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any
> licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database?
> Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site
> for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an
> appropriate related answer.
> 

Open source PostgreSQL is and always has been free for any use.

If you're running it for real on Azure though, consider their managed
service. If it's half as good as Amazon's RDS, it's probably worth a
premium over the bare instance costs.

Re: License question

Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@lists.simkin.ca> — 2024-11-26T01:42:52Z

On Mon, 2024-11-25 at 22:47 +0000, Clay Jackson (cjackson) wrote:
> 
> Are you willing to sign up for "maintaining" PostgreSQL in your
> environment, INCLUDING things like patching, finding and fixing
> bugs, upgrades, backup and recovery, and off-hours support?
> 

Not sure what your point is, you have to do all that with commercial
software, too. And at least with open source you actually can find
and patch bugs yourself, in theory, although you certainly don't have
to, not with any major project.

Re: License question

prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> — 2024-11-26T06:04:28Z

Hi Christophe,Thank you so much for the response. One of my client is also requesting details of licensed version of PostgreSQL. Could you please guide me cost of PostgreSQL license which they want to get installed on their (client’s) on premise server. Not sure how pricing works for enterprise license which have all associated support for enterprise. Also not sure if we can install on any supported license for on-Prem server or we have to buy specific server recommended by PostgreSQL. Will appreciate your guidance here. 
Thanks,Prashant 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, 1:29 AM, Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com> wrote:

> On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.

PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license:

    https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/

No payment is required to download and run it.

Re: License question

Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com> — 2024-11-26T06:12:09Z

Hello,

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here about how PostgreSQL's licensing works.

You do not pay for the community version of PostgreSQL.  The license specifically states it is available without a fee.  It's free.  No one collects money for the community version of PostgreSQL.

There's no "enterprise" version of PostgreSQL that is provided by the community.  It's just PostgreSQL.

There are vendors which provide either commercial versions of PostgreSQL based on the community version, or which provide commercial support for PostgreSQL, but those are separate things from the PostgreSQL community version, and you would need to talk to the individual companies to find out what their arrangements are.

> On Nov 25, 2024, at 22:04, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> 
> Hi Christophe,
> Thank you so much for the response. One of my client is also requesting details of licensed version of PostgreSQL. Could you please guide me cost of PostgreSQL license which they want to get installed on their (client’s) on premise server. Not sure how pricing works for enterprise license which have all associated support for enterprise. Also not sure if we can install on any supported license for on-Prem server or we have to buy specific server recommended by PostgreSQL. Will appreciate your guidance here. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Prashant 
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, 1:29 AM, Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> > Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
> 
> 
> PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license:
> 
>     https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/
> 
> No payment is required to download and run it.

Re: License question

prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> — 2024-11-26T06:46:56Z

Thank you Christophe I am very clear now. And post your email researched various vendors and will get in touch with them. 

Thanks,Prashant 

On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, 11:42 AM, Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com> wrote:

Hello,

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here about how PostgreSQL's licensing works.

You do not pay for the community version of PostgreSQL.  The license specifically states it is available without a fee.  It's free.  No one collects money for the community version of PostgreSQL.

There's no "enterprise" version of PostgreSQL that is provided by the community.  It's just PostgreSQL.

There are vendors which provide either commercial versions of PostgreSQL based on the community version, or which provide commercial support for PostgreSQL, but those are separate things from the PostgreSQL community version, and you would need to talk to the individual companies to find out what their arrangements are.

> On Nov 25, 2024, at 22:04, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> 
> Hi Christophe,
> Thank you so much for the response. One of my client is also requesting details of licensed version of PostgreSQL. Could you please guide me cost of PostgreSQL license which they want to get installed on their (client’s) on premise server. Not sure how pricing works for enterprise license which have all associated support for enterprise. Also not sure if we can install on any supported license for on-Prem server or we have to buy specific server recommended by PostgreSQL. Will appreciate your guidance here. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Prashant 
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, 1:29 AM, Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> > Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
> 
> 
> PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very permissive license:
> 
>    https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/
> 
> No payment is required to download and run it.

Re: License question

Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> — 2024-11-26T16:45:33Z

On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 10:12:09PM -0800, Christophe Pettus wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here about how
> PostgreSQL's licensing works.
>
> You do not pay for the community version of PostgreSQL.  The license
> specifically states it is available without a fee.  It's free.  No one
> collects money for the community version of PostgreSQL.
>
> There's no "enterprise" version of PostgreSQL that is provided by the
> community.  It's just PostgreSQL.
>
> There are vendors which provide either commercial versions of
> PostgreSQL based on the community version, or which provide commercial
> support for PostgreSQL, but those are separate things from the
> PostgreSQL community version, and you would need to talk to the
> individual companies to find out what their arrangements are.

I have blogged about this confusion:

	https://momjian.us/main/blogs/pgblog/2023.html#September_1_2023

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  When a patient asks the doctor, "Am I going to die?", he means 
  "Am I going to die soon?"

Re: License question

Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com> — 2024-11-26T16:49:59Z

On 11/25/24 22:04, prashant sinha wrote:
> Hi Christophe,
> Thank you so much for the response. One of my client is also requesting 
> details of licensed version of PostgreSQL. Could you please guide me 

They are all licensed, it comes down to what the license restrictions 
are. The community edition essentially has no restrictions and is free. 
Commercial forks will have restrictions and will cost.

> cost of PostgreSQL license which they want to get installed on their 
> (client’s) on premise server. Not sure how pricing works for enterprise 
> license which have all associated support for enterprise. Also not sure 
> if we can install on any supported license for on-Prem server or we have 
> to buy specific server recommended by PostgreSQL. Will appreciate your 
> guidance here.

PostgreSQL is not a company.  The PostgreSQL Global Development Group 
the body that oversees it is a non-profit.

Per my previous post companies that deal with Postgres can be found here:

https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/

and here:

https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_hosting/


> 
> Thanks,
> Prashant
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone 
> <https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_>
> 
> On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, 1:29 AM, Christophe Pettus 
> <xof@thebuild.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>      > On Nov 21, 2024, at 21:40, prashant sinha
>     <prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in <mailto:prashantssiin@yahoo.co.in>> wrote:
>      > Is there a free version of PostgreSQL available which I can use
>     without buying any licenses? In case I want to self install and
>     manage the database? Just need guidance if I can install the
>     available version from site for business purpose too or I must buy
>     licenses? Will appreciate an appropriate related answer.
> 
> 
>     PostgreSQL itself is an open source project distributed under a very
>     permissive license:
> 
>     https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/
>     <https://www.postgresql.org/about/licence/>
> 
>     No payment is required to download and run it.
> 

-- 
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@aklaver.com