Re: Commits 8de72b and 5457a1 (COPY FREEZE)

Noah,

* Noah Misch (noah@leadboat.com) wrote:
> I agree we should be reticent to compromise correctness for convenience.
> Compromising mere bug-compatibility, trading one incorrect behavior for
> another incorrect behavior, is not as bad.  Furthermore, today's behavior in
> question is not something I can see applications deliberately and successfully
> relying upon.

I actually don't agree with the notion that one bad bug should allow us
to introduce additional such bugs.  I agree that it's unlikely that
applications are depending on today's behavior of TRUNCATE making
concurrent transactions see an empty table, but it does *not* follow
that applications *won't* start depending on this new behavior of COPY
FREEZE.

> Extending it to cases not involving a just-created or just-truncated table
> really would compromise correctness; errors could leave the table in an
> otherwise-impossible state.  Let's indeed not go there.

Even if we could fix that, I'd be against allowing it arbitrairly for
any regular user INSERT or UPDATE; I'm still not particularly happy with
this approach for COPY.

> > It'll definitely reduce the interest in finding a real
> > solution though, which is unfortunate.
> 
> That effect seems likely, but I do not find it unfortunate.  The change
> variant I have advocated does not stand in contrast to some "real solution" to
> PostgreSQL's treatment for readers of tables created or truncated by a
> transaction not in the reader's snapshot.  The two topics interact at arm's
> length.  Bundling them into one patch, artificially making them to stand or
> fall as a pair, is not a win for PostgreSQL.

Having proper MVCC support for DDL *would* be a win for PostgreSQL and
this *does* reduce the chances of that ever happening.

> That does raise another disadvantage of making the change syntax-controlled:
> if we someday implement the other improvement, COPY FREEZE will have minimal
> reason not to be the default.  FREEZE then becomes a relic noise word.

Indeed, that's certainly unfortunate as well.  Really, though, it just
goes to show how much of a hack this is rather than a real solution.

	Thanks,

		Stephen