Thread

1. AW: AW: Re: beta5 ...

   Zeugswetter Andreas SB <zeugswettera@wien.spardat.at> — 2001-02-19T15:45:12Z

   > > So, what was the case against using yield (2) ?
   > 
   > $ man 2 yield
   > No entry for yield in section 2 of the manual.
   > 
   > Lack of portability :-(
   
   I can't beleive that AIX finally has a convenience function that 
   is missing in mainstream unix :-)
   
   $man 2 yield
   Purpose
   	Yields the processor to processes with higher priorities.
   Description
   The yield subroutine forces the current running process or thread to relinquish
   use of the processor. If the run queue is empty when the yield subroutine is
   called, the calling process or kernel thread is immediately rescheduled. If the
   calling process has multiple threads, only the calling thread is affected. The
   process or thread resumes execution after all threads of equal or greater
   priority are scheduled to run.
   
   Andreas
   
   

2. Re: AW: AW: Re: beta5 ...

   Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu> — 2001-02-20T04:40:24Z

   > I can't beleive that AIX finally has a convenience function that
   > is missing in mainstream unix :-)
   
   Better not report it; they'll take it out ;)
   
                     - Thomas
   
   

3. Re: beta5 ...

   Justin Clift <aa2@bigpond.net.au> — 2001-02-20T08:44:40Z

   Hi all,
   
   As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
   tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
   release?
   
   Like, as an official "checklist" type step?
   
   Regards and best wishes,
   
   Justin Clift
   Database Administrator
   
   

4. Re: beta5 ...

   Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu> — 2001-02-20T14:43:44Z

   > As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
   > tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
   > release?
   
   No. But the changes from beta to beta are usually done with platform
   compatibility in mind, and we try to stay away from introducing
   platform-specific breakage.
   
   We *do* make a great effort to solicit regression tests on all supported
   platforms between first beta and final release, with an explicit push
   during the last beta cycle, just before docs freeze for the release.
   This is easy for the common platforms, and we have been fortunate that
   the more exotic platforms have usually had an interested supporter to
   run the tests and report results.
   
   Lack of reported regression tests for a release or two is sufficient
   cause to drop a platform to the "unsupported" list. We don't remove the
   platform from all lists to help remind us that the platform *could* be
   supported, and once was, in case someone wants to rehabilitate its
   status.
   
                           - Thomas
   
   

5. Re: beta5 ...

   Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> — 2001-02-20T15:50:57Z

   >> As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
   >> tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
   >> release?
   
   Who are you expecting to do that, exactly?
   
   One of the differences between Postgres and a proprietary commercial 
   database is that there is no vast support machinery behind the scenes.
   What you see going on on this list is what you get: beta testing
   consists of the activities performed and reported by list members.
   
   Normally, if we are about to push out a beta then two or three people
   will double-check that the current CVS tip builds and passes regression
   on their personal machines.  But the "supported platforms" coverage
   depicted in the docs consists of all the platforms that are reported to
   us as working during the entire beta test period, including many that
   the key developers have no direct access to.  There's no way that we
   could reverse the process and cause that to happen before a beta release
   instead of after; certainly no way that we could cause all that effort
   to be repeated for each beta version.
   
   If you are using a beta version then you are part of that testing
   process, not a beneficiary of something that's happened behind closed
   doors.
   
   			regards, tom lane
   
   

6. Re: beta5 ...

   Justin Clift <aa2@bigpond.net.au> — 2001-02-21T00:24:45Z

   I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
   it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
   similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
   compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
   their platforms.
   
   In a way, this seems to be done presently, but without the addition of a
   formalised checklist of "platforms this beta compiles/regress-tests on
   as of release time".
   
   I'm thinking about the release process.
   
   + Justin
   
   
   Tom Lane wrote:
   > 
   > >> As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
   > >> tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
   > >> release?
   > 
   > Who are you expecting to do that, exactly?
   > 
   > One of the differences between Postgres and a proprietary commercial
   > database is that there is no vast support machinery behind the scenes.
   > What you see going on on this list is what you get: beta testing
   > consists of the activities performed and reported by list members.
   > 
   > Normally, if we are about to push out a beta then two or three people
   > will double-check that the current CVS tip builds and passes regression
   > on their personal machines.  But the "supported platforms" coverage
   > depicted in the docs consists of all the platforms that are reported to
   > us as working during the entire beta test period, including many that
   > the key developers have no direct access to.  There's no way that we
   > could reverse the process and cause that to happen before a beta release
   > instead of after; certainly no way that we could cause all that effort
   > to be repeated for each beta version.
   > 
   > If you are using a beta version then you are part of that testing
   > process, not a beneficiary of something that's happened behind closed
   > doors.
   > 
   >                         regards, tom lane
   
   

7. Re: beta5 ...

   Hannu Krosing <hannu@tm.ee> — 2001-02-21T06:29:57Z

   Justin Clift wrote:
   > 
   > I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
   > it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
   > similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
   > compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
   > their platforms.
   
   What would the big advantage to releasing the beta and testing _that_ be
   ?
   
   Apart from delaying the beta, that is ;) ?
   
   It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a 
   central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to 
   scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
   
   ----------
   Hannu
   
   

8. Re: beta5 ...

   Marc Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> — 2001-02-21T13:45:12Z

   Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
   relatively quickly?
   
   On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
   
   > Justin Clift wrote:
   > >
   > > I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
   > > it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
   > > similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
   > > compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
   > > their platforms.
   >
   > What would the big advantage to releasing the beta and testing _that_ be
   > ?
   >
   > Apart from delaying the beta, that is ;) ?
   >
   > It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
   > central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
   > scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
   >
   > ----------
   > Hannu
   >
   
   Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
   Systems Administrator @ hub.org
   primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
   
   
   

9. Re: beta5 ...

   Marc Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> — 2001-02-21T15:03:04Z

   On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Tom Lane wrote:
   
   > The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
   > > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
   > > relatively quickly?
   >
   > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
   > >> It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
   > >> central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
   > >> scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
   >
   > Sounded like a great idea to me too.  If Vince doesn't want to mess with
   > it, I'll try to stir up some interest at Great Bridge.
   
   Something like this, I think, is more appropriate on the project site,
   that's all ...
   
   
   
   

10. Re: beta5 ...

    Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> — 2001-02-21T15:04:21Z

    The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
    > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
    > relatively quickly?
    
    > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
    >> It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
    >> central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
    >> scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
    
    Sounded like a great idea to me too.  If Vince doesn't want to mess with
    it, I'll try to stir up some interest at Great Bridge.
    
    			regards, tom lane
    
    

11. Re: beta5 ...

    Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> — 2001-02-21T16:10:08Z

    Hannu Krosing writes:
    
    > It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
    > central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
    > scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
    
    "Platform already tested" is a misguided concept.  Almost any machine is
    customized or deviating in some form or other.  A listing of the form
    
    	beta1	beta2	...
    Linux	ok	ok
    Solaris	ok	broken
    ...
    
    is, IMHO, worse than useless, because it would actually decrease the
    amount of wide-spread, diverse testing.
    
    I wouldn't mind an automated process that builds and runs the test suite
    regularly on many machines to inform developers during the development
    cycle that they broke something really bad, but to make this part of the
    beta testing process is sheer folly.
    
    -- 
    Peter Eisentraut      peter_e@gmx.net       http://yi.org/peter-e/
    
    
    

12. Re: beta5 ...

    Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org> — 2001-02-21T16:44:03Z

    Peter Eisentraut wrote:
    > Hannu Krosing writes:
    > > It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
    > > central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
    > > scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
     
    > "Platform already tested" is a misguided concept.  Almost any machine is
    > customized or deviating in some form or other.  A listing of the form
     
    >         beta1   beta2   ...
    > Linux   ok      ok
    > Solaris ok      broken
    > ...
     
    > is, IMHO, worse than useless, because it would actually decrease the
    > amount of wide-spread, diverse testing.
     
    It goes even further than that, of course -- there are different
    versions to worry about.  As a hypothetical, suppose for a moment that
    PostgreSQL works fine on a Linux 2.2.17 box with glibc 2.1.3, but does
    not work fine on Linux 2.4.1 with glibc 2.2 due to some undocumented
    change to strncmp() (;-)).  Currently, we're not that fine-grained --
    while regression results are useful for ascertaining what is and isn't
    supported, the regression results are very dependent on the environment
    of the machine.
    
    Any process that would discourage widespread testing is not good, IMHO.
    
    Having a form by which you could register pass/fail/diffs for your
    particular platform/environment could be good, with a blank slate each
    release.  But a blanket 'we support Linux' is, IMHO, not good -- _which_
    Linux?  1.0? 1.2? 2.0? 2.0.38 but not 2.0.15? With libc 4 in a.out?  Or
    do you have to have ELF Libc 5?  Libc 5.2.38 works, but 5.4.44 doesn't? 
    Glibc 2.0.5 but not 2.1.3?  RedHat kernel 2.2.17 but not SuSE kernel
    2.2.17? And, the worst: RedHat kernel 2.2.18 for RedHat 7 versus RedHat
    kernel 2.2.18 for RedHat 6.2 (the kernel patches applied could in fact
    be different enough to matter)?
    
    These are all hypothetical examples, of course -- but Linux is not the
    only platform that has these versioning problems just waiting to bite. 
    Linux probably has more of them than most, but it is not alone in having
    them.
    --
    Lamar Owen
    WGCR Internet Radio
    1 Peter 4:11
    
    

13. Re: beta5 ...

    Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com> — 2001-02-21T20:05:00Z

    On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
    
    >
    > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
    > relatively quickly?
    
    The beta or registering the results?  After the last time I won't
    put beta releases on the website, but if you want the results thing
    it can be done in a short time.  Just tell me what info you want
    in it and it'll be there.
    
    Vince.
    
    >
    > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
    >
    > > Justin Clift wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
    > > > it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
    > > > similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
    > > > compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
    > > > their platforms.
    > >
    > > What would the big advantage to releasing the beta and testing _that_ be
    > > ?
    > >
    > > Apart from delaying the beta, that is ;) ?
    > >
    > > It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
    > > central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
    > > scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
    > >
    > > ----------
    > > Hannu
    > >
    >
    > Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
    > Systems Administrator @ hub.org
    > primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
    >
    >
    
    -- 
    ==========================================================================
    Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
     128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
            Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
           Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    ==========================================================================
    
    
    
    
    

14. Re: beta5 ...

    Marc Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> — 2001-02-21T22:16:14Z

    On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
    
    > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
    > > relatively quickly?
    >
    > The beta or registering the results?  After the last time I won't
    > put beta releases on the website, but if you want the results thing
    > it can be done in a short time.  Just tell me what info you want
    > in it and it'll be there.
    
    Hrmmm ... some sort of input form where someone can enter OS specific
    info, and maybe upload the results of the regression tests as far as
    'failed' or 'succeeded'?  the report generated would list the OS info and
    x out of y tests failed ... and a link to a full listing of which
    failed/succeeded?
    
     > > Vince.
    >
    > >
    > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
    > >
    > > > Justin Clift wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
    > > > > it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
    > > > > similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
    > > > > compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
    > > > > their platforms.
    > > >
    > > > What would the big advantage to releasing the beta and testing _that_ be
    > > > ?
    > > >
    > > > Apart from delaying the beta, that is ;) ?
    > > >
    > > > It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
    > > > central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
    > > > scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
    > > >
    > > > ----------
    > > > Hannu
    > > >
    > >
    > > Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
    > > Systems Administrator @ hub.org
    > > primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
    > >
    > >
    >
    > --
    > ==========================================================================
    > Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
    >  128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
    >         Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
    >        Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    > ==========================================================================
    >
    >
    >
    >
    
    Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
    Systems Administrator @ hub.org
    primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
    
    
    

15. Re: beta5 ...

    Mitch Vincent <mitch@venux.net> — 2001-02-21T22:22:41Z

    I have a bunch of machines here, some are rather old (K6-200s,P133s, some
    486s etc) but they're just collecting dust now. I would be more than happy
    to install any OS and do build testing for PostgreSQL is there is a need..
    
    What OSes need to have PostgreSQL built/tested on that the developers don't
    have access to? If I can get the OS (and install it), I would be happy to
    dedicate those machines to PG build testing.. I could set them up on the
    network here (proxy, cable modem) or at the office (T1) and give developers
    access if needed too.
    
    I have several FreeBSD boxes running PG beta 4 now, but I'd bet at least one
    of you is using FreeBSD (and it compiles and installs rather nicely
    anyway)..
    
    -Mitch
    
    
    
    

16. Re: beta5 ...

    Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com> — 2001-02-21T22:27:23Z

    On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
    
    > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
    >
    > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
    > > > relatively quickly?
    > >
    > > The beta or registering the results?  After the last time I won't
    > > put beta releases on the website, but if you want the results thing
    > > it can be done in a short time.  Just tell me what info you want
    > > in it and it'll be there.
    >
    > Hrmmm ... some sort of input form where someone can enter OS specific
    > info, and maybe upload the results of the regression tests as far as
    > 'failed' or 'succeeded'?  the report generated would list the OS info and
    > x out of y tests failed ... and a link to a full listing of which
    > failed/succeeded?
    
    Lemme see what I can cobble together taking into consideration some of
    the things Lamar and Peter also mentioned.  Note: I'm probably 450
    messagees behind due to a 2 day dsl outage; I may have missed some of
    the conversation.  Some messages trickled in, the rest flooded in over
    night.  I may be nearing the time for incoming mail folders :)
    
    Vince.
    -- 
    ==========================================================================
    Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
     128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
            Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
           Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    ==========================================================================
    
    
    
    
    

17. Re: beta5 ...

    Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org> — 2001-02-21T22:35:26Z

    Vince Vielhaber wrote:
    > the things Lamar and Peter also mentioned.  Note: I'm probably 450
    > messagees behind due to a 2 day dsl outage; I may have missed some of
    > the conversation.  Some messages trickled in, the rest flooded in over
    > night.  I may be nearing the time for incoming mail folders :)
    
    Join the club.  I have just finished configuring my Netscape e-mail for
    incoming folders -- _important_ direct e-mails (having to to with my
    actual job) were getting lost in and amongst the various lists I am a
    member of.  I get around 600 e-mails per day on fifteen or so different
    mailing lists (the ones at PostgreSQL.org, a half dozen at
    Broadcast.net, Bugtraq/Linux-alert/RedHat-announce, redhat-beta,
    AOLserver/OpenNSD/OpenACS, and a handful of Linux announce lists,
    unixODBC, CERT, plus all of our Internet listeners).  Netscapes filters
    are a lifesaver!  Of course, there are other more capable packages out
    there, but Netscape works the same on Win9x and Linux, both of which are
    in use on my notebook.
    
    I have to keep up, or the e-mail flood after a couple of days is just
    about unbearable.
    --
    Lamar Owen
    WGCR Internet Radio
    1 Peter 4:11
    
    

18. Re: beta5 ...

    Larry Rosenman <ler@lerctr.org> — 2001-02-21T22:44:04Z

    * Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org> [010221 16:36]:
    > Vince Vielhaber wrote:
    > > the things Lamar and Peter also mentioned.  Note: I'm probably 450
    > > messagees behind due to a 2 day dsl outage; I may have missed some of
    > > the conversation.  Some messages trickled in, the rest flooded in over
    > > night.  I may be nearing the time for incoming mail folders :)
    > 
    > Join the club.  I have just finished configuring my Netscape e-mail for
    > incoming folders -- _important_ direct e-mails (having to to with my
    > actual job) were getting lost in and amongst the various lists I am a
    > member of.  I get around 600 e-mails per day on fifteen or so different
    > mailing lists (the ones at PostgreSQL.org, a half dozen at
    > Broadcast.net, Bugtraq/Linux-alert/RedHat-announce, redhat-beta,
    > AOLserver/OpenNSD/OpenACS, and a handful of Linux announce lists,
    > unixODBC, CERT, plus all of our Internet listeners).  Netscapes filters
    > are a lifesaver!  Of course, there are other more capable packages out
    > there, but Netscape works the same on Win9x and Linux, both of which are
    > in use on my notebook.
    > 
    > I have to keep up, or the e-mail flood after a couple of days is just
    > about unbearable.
    slocal/procmail/mutt on a Unix Box makes it easier.
    
    My Mailing list stuff gets filtered off. 
    
    LER
    
    > --
    > Lamar Owen
    > WGCR Internet Radio
    > 1 Peter 4:11
    -- 
    Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
    Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org
    US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749
    
    

19. Re: beta5 ...

    Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com> — 2001-02-22T01:21:24Z

    On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
    
    > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
    >
    > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
    > > > relatively quickly?
    > >
    > > The beta or registering the results?  After the last time I won't
    > > put beta releases on the website, but if you want the results thing
    > > it can be done in a short time.  Just tell me what info you want
    > > in it and it'll be there.
    >
    > Hrmmm ... some sort of input form where someone can enter OS specific
    > info, and maybe upload the results of the regression tests as far as
    > 'failed' or 'succeeded'?  the report generated would list the OS info and
    > x out of y tests failed ... and a link to a full listing of which
    > failed/succeeded?
    
    http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
    
    What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?
    
    Vince.
    -- 
    ==========================================================================
    Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
     128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
            Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
           Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    ==========================================================================
    
    
    
    
    

20. Re: beta5 ...

    Justin Clift <aa2@bigpond.net.au> — 2001-02-22T04:51:47Z

    Hi Vince,
    
    That's really nifty.
    
    I don't know how to word it, but I think it might be worth including
    something to find out if the machine was "out-of-the box" with just the
    recommended installation utils (i.e. a "new build" of AIX, NT, Solaris,
    etc, then gcc, bison or whatever) vs. a machine that has been actively
    used/developed with for a while.
    
    This is so we can accurately know if a particular version/beta of
    PostgreSQL compiles on a stock(-ish) system or if the successful/failed
    reports are only coming from those machines with updated/newer/different
    things added.
    
    Regards and best wishes,
    
    Justin Clift
    Database Administrator
    
    Vince Vielhaber wrote:
    > 
    <snip>
    > 
    > http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
    > 
    > What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?
    > 
    > Vince.
    > --
    > ==========================================================================
    > Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
    >  128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
    >         Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
    >        Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    > ==========================================================================
    
    

21. RE: beta5 ...

    Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au> — 2001-02-22T05:07:36Z

    What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname -a' on their
    system...?
    
    Chris
    
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
    > [mailto:pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Justin Clift
    > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:52 PM
    > To: Vince Vielhaber
    > Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
    > Subject: Re: [HACKERS] beta5 ...
    >
    >
    > Hi Vince,
    >
    > That's really nifty.
    >
    > I don't know how to word it, but I think it might be worth including
    > something to find out if the machine was "out-of-the box" with just the
    > recommended installation utils (i.e. a "new build" of AIX, NT, Solaris,
    > etc, then gcc, bison or whatever) vs. a machine that has been actively
    > used/developed with for a while.
    >
    > This is so we can accurately know if a particular version/beta of
    > PostgreSQL compiles on a stock(-ish) system or if the successful/failed
    > reports are only coming from those machines with updated/newer/different
    > things added.
    >
    > Regards and best wishes,
    >
    > Justin Clift
    > Database Administrator
    >
    > Vince Vielhaber wrote:
    > >
    > <snip>
    > >
    > > http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
    > >
    > > What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?
    > >
    > > Vince.
    > > --
    > >
    > ==========================================================================
    > > Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com
    http://www.pop4.net
    >  128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
    >         Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
    >        Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    > ==========================================================================
    
    
    

22. RE: beta5 ...

    Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com> — 2001-02-22T15:12:39Z

    On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
    
    > What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname -a' on their
    > system...?
    
    Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version.  Anyone think
    of anything else?
    
    Vince.
    -- 
    ==========================================================================
    Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
     128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
            Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
           Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    ==========================================================================
    
    
    
    
    

23. RE: beta5 ...

    Pete Forman <pete.forman@westerngeco.com> — 2001-02-22T16:00:44Z

    Vince Vielhaber writes:
     > On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
     > 
     > > What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname
     > > -a' on their system...?
     > 
     > Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version.  Anyone
     > think of anything else?
    
    Architecture.  IRIX, Solaris and AIX allow applications and libraries
    to be built 32 or 64 bit.
    
    You may also like to add a field for configure options used.  Or is
    this just for results OOTB?
    -- 
    Pete Forman                 -./\.- Disclaimer: This post is originated
    WesternGeco                   -./\.-  by myself and does not represent
    pete.forman@westerngeco.com     -./\.-  opinion of Schlumberger, Baker
    http://www.crosswinds.net/~petef  -./\.-  Hughes or their divisions.
    
    

24. Re: beta5 ...

    Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> — 2001-02-22T16:33:20Z

    Vince Vielhaber writes:
    
    > http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
    >
    > What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?
    
    The operating systems should be ordered by some key other than maybe
    author's preference. ;-)
    
    Linux needs to be split into one for each distribution.
    
    'Sun' should probably be SunOS.
    
    Also of interest:
    
    - config.guess output
    
    - Linker version
    
    - GNU make version
    
    - configure command line (`pg_config --configure`)
    
    Bison version is probably not interesting, since anything but 1.28 is not
    to be considered serious.
    
    'Platform' could be better named 'CPU type'.  'CPU speed' and 'Total RAM'
    are probably not interesting for anything but statistics.
    
    'libc' version is probably not interesting for anything but Linux?   If
    so, it is already implied if you name the distributor.
    
    -- 
    Peter Eisentraut      peter_e@gmx.net       http://yi.org/peter-e/
    
    
    

25. Re: beta5 ...

    Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu> — 2001-02-22T16:38:01Z

    > Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version.  Anyone think
    > of anything else?
    
    Hmm. Any suggestions on how we collate the test results for our release
    docs? And how we solicit tests for remaining platforms?
    
    In previous releases (and until now), I have kept track of results
    posted on the -hackers mailing list, and then when the beta cycle winds
    down would send out a list containing those platforms which have not yet
    been tested.
    
    It was easy for me to do, and it gave visibility on the developers' list
    for the current status of testing.
    
    Should the procedure now change? And if so, have we just signed me up
    for more work rummaging around a web page to transcribe results? :/
    
    Could we perhaps have a reference on that page to the current
    developer's doc page of "supported platforms"? That would help tie the
    current state of the docs to the current state of the web site report
    form, and it would let people know that they might also post their
    results to the -hackers list to make sure that their results are known
    to others. If we are storing this stuff in a database, then perhaps it
    would be easy to dump those results in a form which maps into the docs? 
    
    <philosophy style=randomthought mode=aside>
    I *know* that having web pages for data entry, etc etc are good things.
    But at some point, the fun of working on PG is (at least for me)
    interacting with *people*, not web sites, and I'd like to avoid building
    in procedures which inadvertently discourage that interaction.
    </philosophy>
    
    Suggestions?
    
                          - Thomas
    
    

26. RE: beta5 ...

    Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com> — 2001-02-22T16:57:10Z

    On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Pete Forman wrote:
    
    > Vince Vielhaber writes:
    >  > On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
    >  >
    >  > > What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname
    >  > > -a' on their system...?
    >  >
    >  > Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version.  Anyone
    >  > think of anything else?
    >
    > Architecture.  IRIX, Solaris and AIX allow applications and libraries
    > to be built 32 or 64 bit.
    
    Added.
    
    > You may also like to add a field for configure options used.  Or is
    > this just for results OOTB?
    
    That comes later.  This part is just for identifying the system itself.
    
    Vince.
    -- 
    ==========================================================================
    Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
     128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
            Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
           Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    ==========================================================================
    
    
    
    
    

27. Re: beta5 ...

    Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com> — 2001-02-22T17:07:12Z

    On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
    
    > Vince Vielhaber writes:
    >
    > > http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
    > >
    > > What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?
    >
    > The operating systems should be ordered by some key other than maybe
    > author's preference. ;-)
    
    Actually it's more random than by preference.  FreeBSD came first 'cuze
    I run it and I always list it first (and alphabetically it comes before
    Linux).  I then kept the bsds together, but those were actually added
    last.  Some of the others came from looking at the directory where the
    FAQs reside and going in that order.
    
    > Linux needs to be split into one for each distribution.
    
    I need a list of them since the only ones I can think of are redhat, suse
    and slackware (does slackware even still exist?).
    
    > 'Sun' should probably be SunOS.
    
    Ok.
    
    > Also of interest:
    >
    > - config.guess output
    
    comes later.  This is mainly for machine identification.  But it is noted
    since I didn't think of it.
    
    > - Linker version
    >
    > - GNU make version
    >
    > - configure command line (`pg_config --configure`)
    
    Comes later.
    
    > Bison version is probably not interesting, since anything but 1.28 is not
    > to be considered serious.
    >
    > 'Platform' could be better named 'CPU type'.  'CPU speed' and 'Total RAM'
    > are probably not interesting for anything but statistics.
    
    Changed platform.
    
    > 'libc' version is probably not interesting for anything but Linux?   If
    > so, it is already implied if you name the distributor.
    
    And if someone upgrades libc?  I add that 'cuze when a friend of mine was
    using redhat for his isp (quite a while ago) someone upgraded his libc for
    him - what a mess that made!
    
    Vince.
    -- 
    ==========================================================================
    Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
     128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
            Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
           Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    ==========================================================================
    
    
    
    
    

28. Re: beta5 ...

    Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com> — 2001-02-22T17:14:07Z

    On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Thomas Lockhart wrote:
    
    > > Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version.  Anyone think
    > > of anything else?
    >
    > Hmm. Any suggestions on how we collate the test results for our release
    > docs? And how we solicit tests for remaining platforms?
    >
    > In previous releases (and until now), I have kept track of results
    > posted on the -hackers mailing list, and then when the beta cycle winds
    > down would send out a list containing those platforms which have not yet
    > been tested.
    
    Can you provide me with a list of platforms it should be tested on?
    
    >
    > It was easy for me to do, and it gave visibility on the developers' list
    > for the current status of testing.
    >
    > Should the procedure now change? And if so, have we just signed me up
    > for more work rummaging around a web page to transcribe results? :/
    
    No, I wouldn't do that to you.  You tell me how you want the results
    to look and I'll give you copy-n-paste.  All of this info will be stored
    in a table so the output is however it's wanted.
    
    > Could we perhaps have a reference on that page to the current
    > developer's doc page of "supported platforms"? That would help tie the
    > current state of the docs to the current state of the web site report
    > form, and it would let people know that they might also post their
    > results to the -hackers list to make sure that their results are known
    > to others. If we are storing this stuff in a database, then perhaps it
    > would be easy to dump those results in a form which maps into the docs?
    
    No problem.
    
    > <philosophy style=randomthought mode=aside>
    > I *know* that having web pages for data entry, etc etc are good things.
    > But at some point, the fun of working on PG is (at least for me)
    > interacting with *people*, not web sites, and I'd like to avoid building
    > in procedures which inadvertently discourage that interaction.
    > </philosophy>
    >
    > Suggestions?
    
    If anything this will make it easier for you and give you more time to
    interact and less time to have to dig for results which may not be as
    complete as you'd like.
    
    Vince.
    -- 
    ==========================================================================
    Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
     128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
            Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
           Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    ==========================================================================
    
    
    
    
    

29. Re: beta5 ...

    Justin Clift <aa2@bigpond.net.au> — 2001-02-23T00:08:09Z

    Hi Vince,
    
    Here's the next thing... how do you want to distinguish between Solaris
    SPARC, Solaris INTEL (and maybe even Solaris MAC even though it isn't
    sold any longer)?  Each of these has a 32 and 64 bit mode also.
    
    I thought that might be what "Platform" could be used for, but
    "Architecture" sounds right.
    
    Regards and best wishes,
    
    Justin Clift
    Database Administrator
    
    Vince Vielhaber wrote:
    > 
    <snip> 
    > > Bison version is probably not interesting, since anything but 1.28 is not
    > > to be considered serious.
    > >
    > > 'Platform' could be better named 'CPU type'.  'CPU speed' and 'Total RAM'
    > > are probably not interesting for anything but statistics.
    > 
    > Changed platform.
    > 
    > > 'libc' version is probably not interesting for anything but Linux?   If
    > > so, it is already implied if you name the distributor.
    > 
    > And if someone upgrades libc?  I add that 'cuze when a friend of mine was
    > using redhat for his isp (quite a while ago) someone upgraded his libc for
    > him - what a mess that made!
    > 
    > Vince.
    > --
    > ==========================================================================
    > Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
    >  128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
    >         Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
    >        Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
    > ==========================================================================
    
    

30. Re: beta5 ...

    Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu> — 2001-02-23T01:26:18Z

    > Can you provide me with a list of platforms it should be tested on?
    
    The current list is at
    
     
    http://www.postgresql.org/devel-corner/docs/admin/supported-platforms.html
    
    > No, I wouldn't do that to you.  You tell me how you want the results
    > to look and I'll give you copy-n-paste.  All of this info will be stored
    > in a table so the output is however it's wanted.
    
    OK, if we entered in the current list of supported platforms, or even if
    not, that could form the basis for the "solicitation email" to get the
    rest of the platforms tested. Look at what I collate in the docs, but if
    you give me more that won't be a problem.
    
    btw, for docs I'm not sure how to include much more information, since
    it has to fit on a page (in tabular form, presumably). Suggestions?
    
    > > Could we perhaps have a reference on that page to the current
    > > developer's doc page of "supported platforms"? <blah blah blah>
    > No problem.
    
    Ok, the URL would be the same as above, for *development*. Not sure how
    we will do the same info on the "released side" of the web site?
    
    > If anything this will make it easier for you and give you more time to
    > interact and less time to have to dig for results which may not be as
    > complete as you'd like.
    
    Yup, you are right. Thanks.
    
    Hmm, would generating an email to the -hackers list when something gets
    updated be useful? istm it would not end up being spam, but what do
    y'all think?
    
                            - Thomas